Talk:British hip hop

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==British hip hop==

I've added this article to the list requiring a clean up.

  • The Next Generation and New Generation sections are constantly being changed with a new name claiming the first Wikilink on a regular basis.
  • Why was there a new and next generation? What prompted it?
  • This article raises more questions than it answers
  • And is now very long with a handful of sources incorrectly formatted.
  • This is an important subject - it deserves a good rewrite to bring it up to standard. Escaper7 17:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Added to User:Sceptre/Desk RJFJR 14:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Sceptre has left the building. Need to reassign.

Added to User:Heaven's Wrath/Desk RJFJR 14:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Reassign

Added to User:C i d/Desk RJFJR 15:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
British hip hop is within the scope of the WikiProject Regional and national music, an attempt at building a resource on the music of all the peoples and places of the world. Please visit the project's listing to see the article's assessment and to help us improve the article as we push to 1.0.
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Contents

[edit] References

This is a good article, but it needs to be Wikified to attribute its sources. For example: Nowadays, British hip hop is enjoying its second coming - managing to be popular without "selling out" and innovative without being off-putting... Says who? I'll start work on tidying this up, but any help would be appreciated. Please don't remove the 'references boilerplate' as this helps alert other editors that it's in need of a little attention. See: Wikipedia: Citing Sources. Regards Escaper7 10:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Generation...?

A complete rewrite needs to be actioned as the focus under this heading talks more about UK grime than anything. Grime has its own page and little is mentioned of the traditional hip hop sounds coming out of the underground. I would also debate the influences cited for the 'new wave' of Brit-hop. To simply say 'hip-hop' is ill-defined to say the least. UK hip hop? US hip hop? Also the term "hip-hop" is used and abused by everyone and can cause mass confusion - many people still associate the term with mainstream gangster rap and hip-pop without any knowledge of the many sub-genres stemming off of it.

I agree, the "new generation", "next generation" sections are a bit odd sounding, and seem to be an extended list of new acts, I don't have enough expertise or time to assist with this, but it definitely needs to be radically overhauled. Escaper7 05:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Certainty over the official origins....

Did it really come out of British breakdancing and graffiti? this sounds all too similar to how the American scene developed and a bit too coincidental - almost crediting the UK for developing its own hip hop culture all by itself...which it didn't. Its fair to say that American Hip Hop culture was already well established before it rubbed off onto Britain in the 80's and its continued exports have continued to heavily influence the British hip hop music scene.


British hip hop was kick-started by the US scene, but as with the US, it wasn't a separate movement and grew almost organically out of the breakdance and graff scenes. Blade for example started out as a grafitti artist and bodypopper called Electron - "[Blade] I was given it by a friend who ended up dying on the underground doing graffiti and stuff and I kept the name out of respect for the person, my name used to be Electron back then, I was a body popper and breaker, so it kinda changed from there." [1] - as a youngster before getting into hip hop and rapping, and the Ruthless Rap Assassins page explains that Kermit also started out in a brerakdance crew called Broken Glass before becoming a rapper. There's no denying that the US scene created the British scene, but its also fair to say that in the UK, as in the US, it grew out of breakdancing and graf. Terrypin 11:27, 22 August 2006

The majority who think they understand what hip hop is...quite simply dont. i get irritated with pratts puttin grime into a catergory with uk hip hop, or claim grime is the uks answer to hip hop...its not, unless you mean at a pre-nursery school standards. i grew up on golden age hip hop, i didnt consume what was gettin marketed and pushed as hip hop, i explored and discovered artists like company flow, non phixion, mr.lif, peanut butter wolf, mark b & blade etc. i also love my old skool hip hop such as cold crush, stetsasonic, mantronix etc. i was originally into graffiti and breaking, which led me to emceeing and the dj side of things. so many people nowardays since the millenium mainly tend to think hip hop is about expressin how bad they are, or the clothes, gold and bling they rock, bitches/snitches/cadillac switches etc...bascially talentless played out yawn provoking babble!

[edit] Hip hop in the regions

I think it's useful to include information about regional hip-hop artists, but there are several inconsistencies in the links from this article. I think there should be a regional sub-section, but let's keep out the My Space links, "See Alsos" to non existent articles ie Manchester hip hop, and if there are to be separate articles they should be consistently merged. The fact that Skinnyman was born in Yorkshire, but actually grew up in London, means it's physically impossible to say that he's contributed to "Yorkshire hip hop" - he hasn't, is simply from that region. That's why I'm suggesting those article be merged with this one. Escaper7 10:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect to UK hip hop

An unregistered editor moved this page to UK hip hop, but failed to move the talk page which obviously causes serious problems. Please discuss the need for a move here on the talk pages first. Thanks. Escaper7 12:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up: started

I've added this article to the list requiring a clean up. The Next Generation and New Generation sections are constantly being changed with a new name claiming the first Wikilink on a regular basis. Why was there a new and next generation? What prompted it? This article raises more questions than it answers and is now very long with a handful of sources incorrectly formatted. This is an important subject - it deserves a good rewrite to bring it up to standard. Escaper7 17:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I've got things moving a bit by starting on the references - I haven't got a lot of time to devote to this so any contributions welcomed, please discuss major changes first, as a courtesy to eds cleaning this up, and please follow the correct format of referencing as this is quite a long article to pick through and source. Regards. Escaper7 18:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish hip hop

Since this is British hip hop, and Scotland is part of Britain, shouldn't the Scottish hip hop article be merged with this? Sheriff Bernard 10:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC) Is there a notable rap scene in Scots? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 17:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HHC Top 50

There have been a few recent changes to the Top 50 in the article, replacing the artists in the listing, often for quite obscure artists. I don't have a copy of the article, but I suspect some people are using the list as an opportunity to get their name on Wikipedia - has anyone got a reliable online source for the list? I can't find one, and the only other options would be either a lock or to remove the section, both of which would be a bit extreme. JonStrines 08:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, the list shouldn't be in the article anyway. It's not a definitive list, it's an editorial from one particular magazine and it's not written in an encyclopedic form. Yeanold Viskersenn 13:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't Hip Hop Connection have its own page? We could move it over to there where it might be more appropriate? JonStrines 09:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It would be more appropriate there, but I think lifting a list of 50 artists that their journos consider to be the best and putting the entire list in an article might not be appropriate - it's verging on infringing HHC's copyright. Yeanold Viskersenn 14:11, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Its nowhere near their copyright, but that's by the by: if its not right for wikipedia as a list, then it should go. Presumably the most appropriate mention would be on the individual artist/album pages, but not having a citable source I wouldn't want to put it in myself. If nobody objects in the next few days, I'll delete the list as unencyclopedic and unsourced: if there's an appropriate place, I'll try and insert a comment about the list's existence, since that can be sourced easily enough. JonStrines 14:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a copyright issue here actually, because it is an editorial list. See Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2006 February 4:

"Under US case law, e.g. Eckes v. Card Prices Update, lists of items that are created entirely or primarily as a result of editorial opinion are subject to copyright protection. This explicitly excludes lists which are derived solely from facts, statistics, or polling data, as only opinion based lists are considered by the courts to have the requisite creativity required for copyright protection under US law. Consequently, the inclusion of the entirety of such a list solely for the purposes of adding it to Wikipedia will generally constitute a copyright infringment. Excerpts of such lists can be used in Wikipedia under the doctrine of fair use when they are associated with meaningful discussion of the contents of the list, but under typical circumstances, one should never reproduce the entirety of such a list."

SeveroTC 15:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I stand corrected: I'd forgotten that Wiki is based in the US. Have removed the list due to the copyright violation, and also because of the minor vandalism. JonStrines 09:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] There isn't much mention of Welsh hiphop

Apart from the small sentence on GLC, there isn't any info regarding welsh hiphop. As the page is 'Brtish hip hop', we could maybe have seperate paragraphs for music of welsh, scottish and irish origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feralvision (talk • contribs) 13:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Goldie lookin chain are not hip hop, they are a bunch of wankers who are piss taking it! anyway why do you nationalise it for, im a emcee from england, but i dont put myself in one catergory, i dont even like this country, thats why im a rapper. so i can moan about this capitalist mess, so why would i be patriotic and call myself uk hip hop, like im proud to come from this raping and pillaging fascist colonialist empire...never mind the bollocks heres me!!!!!!

[edit] 'BRITHOP BOLLOCKS'

British hiphop has NEVER been called 'Brithop', what a load of bollocks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feralvision (talk • contribs) 14:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC) I totally agree, its news to me if its called brithop. like i stated above, i am hip hop, dont catergorise me cos i happen to have been born here! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.71.63 (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "This is due to the fact that various ethnic groups in Britain tend to not live in segregated areas"

yeah right.... does this writer even live in Britain?