Talk:British Army Other Ranks rank insignia

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The Household Cavalry, in which even the lowliest trooper was once a gentleman, have never used the rank of Sergeant, as it originates from the word servant. I've seen this asserted in any number of places, but never with a credible source.

Sergeant was originally an infantry rank only: no cavalry regiments had sergeants. (Nor did the artillery, for that matter.) All we have here is typical adherence to tradition by one of Britain's most conservative units.

More precisely: British cavalry regiments used to come in two flavours, horse and dragoons. Horse regiments were always cavalry, and had no sergeants: dragoons were originally mounted infantry, and so did have sergeants.

By the middle of the eighteenth century, dragoons were indistinguishable from horse in equipment and tactics: however, they were paid less. As a cost-cutting exercise, the Government started converting horse regiments to dragoons: presumably they acquired sergeants at this time, or not long after.

The only horse regiments that escaped this conversion were ancestors of the current Household Cavalry regiments. Hence, no sergeants.

In hierarchical societies, service is not demeaning in itself: what matters is the status of your master and the capacity in which you serve. The word serjeant appeared in the titles of many offices of high social status (serjeant-at-arms, serjeant-at-law, serjeant-major-general), and in grand serjeanty, a form of land tenure under which e.g. the office of Lord High Constable was held.

I therefore submit that it is a myth that the Household Cavalry has no sergeants because sergeant=servant, and ask that it be knocked on the head. Franey 15:46, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Consistency with other WP articles...

... isn't actually part of the naming conventions. Shouldn't this article be at British Army Other Ranks insignia? Or perhaps British Army non-commissioned rank insignia? Alai 16:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it should. British Army Other Ranks rank insignia would be my preference. Repetition maybe, but ORs are a class of people, and they wear insignia other than that of rank. -- Necrothesp 16:31, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I originally created this page by adapting the title from U.S. Army enlisted rank insignia, but I appreciate "enlisted ranks" is a misnomer when referring to "other ranks" in the British forces. Perhaps a change should be proposed? Dainamo 12:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Officers and other ranks

In my 25 years in the British Army, I rarely came across the term 'Officers and other ranks'. The more likely term was 'Officers and soldiers'. I assume that was because it was deemed more acceptable?

RASAM 20:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

While the article does dip into the quagmire that is 'variations' of ranks, there are still many others that could be included:

The bomb or grenade above a Royal Engineers sergeant/staff sergeant's stripes.

The rank of WO ll Quartermaster Sergeant (QM Sgt), could also apply to 'Quartermaster Sergeant Instructor (QMSI). I realise that 'QMSI' is an appointment, not a rank, but so is 'QM Sgt' an appointment.

I seem to remember many years ago seeing a SNCO in the Queen Dragoon Guards (QDG) with four stripes (point at the bottom)and a crown. I think he might have been the Squadron Quartermaster Sergeant (SQMS).

I believe the 'Serjeant' spelling is still in use in the Light Infantry, as are such terms as 'Arms Cote' (Armoury).

RASAM 20:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I was hoping to find examples of different ranks' duties, so if there are any enthusiasts looking fo something to add...


[edit] Oddities On Rank Pages

On both this and the Ranks and insignia of NATO Armies Enlisted entry, the table showing British ranks and their insignia seem to have been replaced with Thailand. Any idea what's happened, and where the right insignia have gone? Torak 15:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)