Talk:Borders of the Roman Empire

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The map of the borders of the Roman Empire needs some corrections. First, Ireland was never part of the Roman empire, so the cyon (light blue) color in eastern Ireland should be erased. Second, the western Arabian peninsula was temporarily conquered by the Romans under Augustus, when he sent Gaius Aelius Gallus to the actual Yemen (and the Roman fleet with him destroyed the port of actual Aden). Third, the Garamantes, a berber tribe south of Tripoli (Libia) in the first centuries after Augustus were "associated" with the Roman Empire, so their territory -stretching from actual Tripolitania to the Fezzan in actual southern Libia- should be included in the map. Brunodam (10/26/2006)

I didn't know about Libia and the Arabian Peninsula, however SW Ireland was under "control" of the romans (not for more than two weeks, but it was) —Argentino (talk/cont.) 22:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Argentino, in which year SW Ireland was under Roman "control"? I only know by the "Agricola" of Tacitus that in the year 83 AD the roman general Agricola considered the possibility of invasion of Ireland, but preferred to turn north and went to conquer Scotland in 84 AD. He planned to "pacify" Scotland first and then invade Ireland, but was recalled in the continent in 85 AD. And so "perdomita Britannia et statim missa" as Tacitus wrote in his "Historiae", referring to the fact that Scotland was never conquered in full by the Romans, as proudly say the actual British historians. I am really interested about the "two weeks" you name. Brunodam (10/30/06)

I saw it in a book, now I think it might be wrong on purpose because it was written by someone who loved them. I'll chang it

Argentino, my personal point of view is that you can maintain eastern Ireland in light blue in your map. The reason is that Agricola considered the invasion of Ireland after some of his Legionaries went to Ireland and contacted the local tribes for information about a possible conquest. We don't know if these Legionaries did some military action or received some form of friendly "subjugation" from the Irish tribes in eastern Ireland. We only know that Agricola judged that could conquer all the island with a single legion (according to Tacitus): from what he made this judgment? Only from the reports from these legionaries, obviously. Tacitus wrote that Ivernia (the roman name of Ireland) "was hardly in contact with Romans" and this fact does NOT exclude some contact and even some form of accomodating tribute-payment to avert possible conquerors. Anyway, if you want some precise information about the campaign of Gallus in Arabia and about the Garamantes in Libia, I suggest you to read the book of Theodor Mommsen "The Provinces of the Roman Empire". Brunodam (10/31/06)

Could someone post a date or under which emperor for when Ireland was allegedly under Roman control? I don't doubt that it may have been suggested, but a date would be helpful here. Thanks, --24.154.173.243 18:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnaeus_Julius_Agricola#Agricola_in_Ireland.3F --24.154.173.243 18:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

There's been some pretty tendentious writing about Ireland in this context, although I can't recall the title of the book and articles I'm thinking of. In my view, various contributors take archaeological evidence that is most easily explained by trading links and fit it to some faint literary evidence, and Hey Presto! Ireland was part of the empire ... There are political implications in this - seems unionists and people who advocate a Greater Britain, in which Ireland is a province ruled from southern England, like to imagine that the political roots reach all the way down. It's the kind of history that slots in beside King Arthur and the Trojan origins of the British polity. I think the colour should be taken out of Ireland's cheeks.--Shtove 18:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References are all in Italian

Perhaps this article came originally from an Italian source? If anyone knows of an English-language atlas that would cover the same ground, perhaps they could add it. The Italian atlas can't be found on Amazon.com. EdJohnston 03:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry if the Italian atlases cant be found on Amazon. Those are the ones I bought when I was a school in the italian school in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Since Rome was the capital of the empire, you shouldn't be amazed if the best sources were in Italian. —Argentino (talk/cont.) 16:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Argentino, thanks for the update! However the new ISBN that you provided for 'Nuovo Atlante Storico', 88-451-5401-0, is also invalid, which can be confirmed by entering it at www.isbn.org/converterpub.asp. EdJohnston 18:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and added two English-language historical atlases to the reference list. These books have maps of the borders of the empire at various times. I removed the De Agostini atlas with the invalid ISBN, leaving a later edition of the same book in place. Let me know if anyone disagrees with this solution. EdJohnston 20:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)