Talk:Bombing of Cologne in World War II

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Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (nations and regions): German military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

Contents 1 Time line of Cologne air raids during World War II 2 War crime or crime against humanity 3 A link to consider 4 Fair use rationale for Image:Cologne 1945 5.jpg

[edit] Time line of Cologne air raids during World War II

The way I worked out the months that Cologne was bombed was to use google [Cologne site:www.raf.mod.uk] and only list those pages in the bombing diary [1] eg http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/jun43.html

More work needs to be done to list the days and the number of bombers because the RAF would often send the odd Mosquito to fly around a city as a diversion and to give the Germans in the city a uncomfortable night eg 11/12 June 1943 "3 Mosquitos to Duisburg and 2 to Cologne". (main raid Dusseldorf: 783 aircraft). But some of the raids were big eg http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/july43.html "3/4 July 1943 653 aircraft - 293 Lancasters, 182 Halifaxes, 89 Wellingtons, 76 Stirlings, 13 Mosquitos returned to Cologne." -- Philip Baird Shearer 08:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Suggestion I'm no WWII buff, but is it possible to expand out this section with RAF/USAF info including which air-groups, number of planes, planes/personel lost, etc? Granted the information may be 60+ years old. Marcsin 21:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War crime or crime against humanity

As is happening on all related articles, P B Shearer is deleting all notion of the fact that many see area bombardment that killed hundreds of thousands of civilians as a war crime or crime against humanity. As Churchill himself noted it was used in order to spread terror. The Nuremberg Trial definition of crimes against humanity included murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population but no judgment on the case of area bombardment has never been made. As was already noted at the Dresden bombing article, google finds thousands of pages with "crime against humanity" and Dresden. [2], [3] [4] Sorry if there are Nazi pages among them, but even if they are Nazi pages, they still exist. Get-back-world-respect 23:27, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Get-back-world-respect we have debated this many times. over a very long period. I see no point in running over old arguments. There are literally pages and pages of our debate in the archives of Arthur Harris and the Bombing of Dresden. Your argument that there has never been a trial is not relevant, and does not make the statment true. I could just as easily write that the last Pope murder but that there have never been a trial about this question. --Philip Baird Shearer 01:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

You are right, we had the "debate", and all I ever saw from your side was reverts, you do not even try to see the point. There are people who say that the bombings were a war crime, and if you like it or not, it needs to be noted. Get-back-world-respect 03:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

The claim that "It has been suggested that the bombing of civilian targets in this way constitutes a war crime or crime against humanity." is a blatant POV and out of place in this article. It could just as easily be rewritten as "It has been suggested that the bombing of civilian targets in this way does not constitutes a war crime or crime against humanity a position held by all belligerents at the time." There are other better articles where this is discussed (like Terror bombing. Further the statment uses weasel words if it is to be reinstated at the very least it should have a valid cited source(s). --Philip Baird Shearer 10:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this isn't a POV, but a well-authenticated fact needing no specific reference. It is important to include this in the milestone 1,000-bomber raid, and to do so in a neutral, unopinionated way, which did at least damp down the flaming between PBS and GBWR. John Wheater 21:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A link to consider

Might someone consider adding this link, which is a translation of the Nazi pamphlet on the bombing of Cologne:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/cologne.htm

It's my site, so I won't do it myself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bytwerk (talk • contribs) 02:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

OK - I've added it - interesting contemporary point of view. Ian Dunster 19:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Cologne 1945 5.jpg

Image:Cologne 1945 5.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)