Talk:Body language

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Body Language is often used in Human Courtship between a Male and a Female.

Are we to assume, then, that flirtation does not occur between same-sex couples? --^pirate 23:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC) If you know about same sex couples add something - If not shh =) Catalyst?! (talk) 22:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The page states:

For example, the tendency for people to raise their eyebrows as one approaches them fact-to-face is usually indicative of esteem. If you walk down the street and encounter someone you don't know then the chances are that neither of you will raise your eyebrows. If you recognise each other, however, even if you do not greet each another, then eyebrows will likely raise and lower. Of particular interest here in a work context is that if one is not rated highly by the other person then that person will not raise their eyebrows, even though one is recognised.

I think we need a formal reference for this claim - it is not a common, text-book finding, and it could turn out to be a bit of pop psychology. Does anyone know where it comes from? seglea 16:38, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The reference given for the above section was http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/bodylanguage.htm This is not an authoritative source, so I have removed the material from the article. Any claim of this sort needs to be based on a peer-reviewed social psychology research report, particularly in a field like body language where so much unreliable material has been circulated. seglea 06:08, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Has anyone had a look at the Examples section as it stands at the time of my writing this? Anyone else believes it should either be authoritatively referenced or removed? As mentioned above, sounds like 100% pop culture.--81.42.163.244 02:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
seeing as this hasn't been fixed in 6 months, perhaps it's time to let the examples section go... Im gonna cull it in a few days if no references/reworking/rewriting appears Sparkleyone 14:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Please dont, I consider it highly accurate and a source is Allan Pease' book "Body Language". But I dont have it here so I cant add it as a source. I assure you, the examples are ok, valid, nice, accurate etc etc... Althou the eyebrowns-thing is of little interest as we can say changes in facial expressions mean this and this blahblah... Foant 08:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
There have been three requests to reference this section now. Allan Pease is hardly authoritative in the scientific world, but if you want to put some of his examples in, make it clear that it is his opinion, or state the references he has used. As it is now, it is hearsay. It would be exactly the same as me saying "pointing your finger downwards means you like a person". It is unreferenced and not true. Referencing is not so hard to do. A simple search will reveal a reference for the Pease book if you want to add it, however it is little more then pop psychology, so be careful in your wording before claiming it all as fact. Sparkleyone 09:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
So the section stays if I add "According to Allan Pease in his "Body Language" book ..." ? Are there any scientific studies on the subject even to claim any sort of body language as fact? Foant 11:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Well I for one would be happier with it, because at least it tells the reader where you got the info from, allows them to make their own opinion as to the truth of it, and states whose opinion/research it is. And yes, there are studies on body language, gesture and flirting, you would need to read some social psychology stuff, it would be a bit of work but starting with a google scholar search would be helpful. See Wiki's verifiability policy here Sparkleyone 02:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
This was last discussed over a month ago. Since then, no action has been taken to properly reference the information contained in the examples section, and indeed the aforementioned reference for this section seems none too credible. Therefore, I am going to remove the section entirely. If, at a later date, there is more evidence supporting these examples, the section should be re-added with appropriate references and citations. Atellus 23:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Involuntary body language?

Well, the 'voluntary body language' section does lead on to it, so I will create a basi frame for this section with a tiny clip of information. Anser 4 July 2005 11:58 (UTC)

  • If that is termed "nonverbal leakage" then there is plenty of GHits out there to expand this subtopic. Exit2DOS2000•T•C• 10:06, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] too short

This is redicoulus, is this an encyclopedia or what? What kind of encylcopedia have this little information of something as common and universal as body language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.8.148.20 (talk) 18:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement drive

Flirting is currently listed to be improved on WP:IDRIVE. You can vote to support the article if you are interested.--Fenice 09:45, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adds

I improved the article, it sounds better now. Charles-gr

[edit] again..

added some infos.

i have removed those

  • Defensive: Crossing of arms is often considered to be a defensive, closed posture.
  • Superiority: hands clasped behind the head

because i took them from a website which i added it as an external link, but it was removed bcause it had no refrence, so the information could not be added too as its unrefrecned

http://www.2knowmyself.com/body_language/learn_body_language

[edit] Disputes

See above for my problem with this article. I fixed various errors such as:

  • Capitalisation of "Human Courtship".
  • Reworded the first sentence to include a general statement in reference to human courtship rather than an explicitly Male-Female relationship; I think this is a little close-minded.
  • I've placed the cleanup template on the top of the page: it needs revision.
  • I've removed that ridiculously long quote from Desmond Morris; it's not part of this article anyway, and simply cannot be justified. Also, I removed the latter part of the Desmond Morris stuff, it was just too long and jumbly. Even as it stands it doesn't seem to contribute much to the argument and I would suggest deletion of the entire thing, simply leaving a link to Flirting under the See Also page.

The problem with this article is an odd one; the top half is very informative and useful, but it begins to taper off with useless information that is in parts horribly written. I've added the tags to the top of the page because of these reasons. It's an interesting topic, but really needs attention due to the mishmash of content. Hope you can help out, guys. In particular, you should head for:

  • The 'Importance of body language in groups' header.
  • 'Examples', which also needs rewording.
--^pirate 23:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Examples has been culled due to lack of verifiable sources. If credible sources can be found, then by all means someone should re-add examples with appropriate references. Atellus 23:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


"Some species of humans such as islamic people are especially adept at detecting human body language, both voluntary and involuntary"

Don't even know where to start with this sentence. Muslims are apparently a sub-species of human, 'Islamic' isn't capitalized anyway, and where's the source?

[edit] Comment

  • Looking at the floor and shaking his head *

As important as body language is throughout the world, this article is barely a preface. It is a patchwork and desperately needs someone to come along with adequate experience to outline the scope of the subject ... then it might fall together more coherently.

Agreed. I will tag the article as needing an expert. Atellus 23:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Understanding Body Language

Could this section please be rewritten?

I reworded the sentences, so hopefully it should sound more formal. Slur 12:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External link

i wonder!!, why is that link removed, its the most detialed one i have ever seen on the web!!!

http://www.2knowmyself.com/body_language/learn_body_language

i want your opinion —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 57.250.231.247 (talk)

The site doesn't have any provenance - and the disclaimer at the bottom of the page makes it clear that the site isn't even prepared to stand behind the information it provides in even the most basic sense. There's no indication of where they information came from and what cultural point of view it takes. It's not a site that is well known or cited by experts in the subject. The site is poorly designed and covered in advertising. Our guidelines are clear that we should have high standards for external links. Any of these things individually could make it an unsuitable link for Wikipedia, all of them together makes it a very poor site for us to be directing our readers to. --Siobhan Hansa 00:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

hey i visited that one, probably the most detailed website on the internet on body language, i dont find the design that bad —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 57.250.231.247 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Autism

You can tell from the brevity of this article (and especially the lack of examples) that there are many Autists/Aspergers on Wikipedia who really don't have a clue as to what body language is about :) I added a hint in the "Understanding Body Language" section, however, to warn NT readers that this whole thing is not as universal as they might believe. -- wr 14-dec-2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.235.209.10 (talk)

hey , you are totaly right, and whats funny is, websites like the one mentioned in the above section is removed from external links:D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 57.250.231.247 (talk)

The brevity and lack of verified information shows there are few experts on the area who edit here, and not too many people who treat the article as a place to post their pet theories. (And adding in external links to further unverified information doesn't do anything at all to further a mission to build a GFDL encyclopedia - hence the deletion).
A reliable source for the assertion about Aspergers/autism folks using body language differently would be good. We might even be able to expand on it. --Siobhan Hansa 22:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible reference

This:

Was added to the article in the references section, but it was added without anything being added to the article content and from an anon IP with no other edits so it's not clear what it's supposed to reference. Not sure how reliable a source it is. The website caims to be for the Center for Nonverbal Communication, a nonprofit run by the author of the article. It also has a bio of givens which sounds like he's authoritative enough as a source. But, after an admittedly brief look,I can't find citations of his work or anything that backs up the status of the Center for Nonverbal Communication. Could just as easily be a consultant as an academic. Others are welcome to investigate further. it would be nice to get some good sources in this article. -- Siobhan Hansa 17:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin and Germanic body language

I recently read somewhere, I think it was in new scientist but I haven't been able to relocate it, that there are two main differences between speakers of the "latin language group" and the "germanic language group". 1. Most people seem to believe that the southeners use more hand-gestures, but that is false, they use the same anount of gestures as northeners. The difference is that southeners use their elbows more, i.e. their gestures take up more space. 2. Latins and Germanics differ in what type of words they use the hands to emphasise; in the phrase "the spider climbed upp the ladder" one group will use a gesture at "upp", and the other at "climbed" (or something like that). This can be used to determine the precise moment when a language student has actually started thinking in a new language. (yeah sounds weird, but thats prety much what the text said; I'd love to know what mechanism is in play, wether it is body language picked up from the language teachers or something more fundamental in the structure of the language)--Stor stark7 Talk 19:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] May lead to a child...

"Sexual desire can be indicated when a female crosses her legs towards a male she wants to fufill her biological urges to reproduce. This can especially be seen at parties involving alcohol and may even lead to a child. See Sex. "

I find it strange the "may lead to a child" part is included, I don’t think that you can reasonably make the connection of crossing your legs and then children. In my opinion, it should be subject to deletion. I won't delete it myself, not yet atleast. I want to wait and see what other people think.KellanFabjance (talk) 16:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent content addition

I have concerns about this recent addition. Specifically that it is written as a self-help manual which Wikipedia isn't; the focus on dating is inappropriate; and it appears to present culturally specific norms as though they were universal rules. It also has no appropriate references as verification. With good sources I could probably work on the language issues to make it more of an article, but is there more that can be added to it to make it seem like less of a dating manual? -- SiobhanHansa 03:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed it too, and have the same concerns. Unfortunately I don't have anything in the way of a solution. Or rather, I don't have data or sources to aid in the solution. --Scandalous (talk) 08:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)