Talk:Blair Hornstine

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[edit] COI Allegation

Inserted some citation changes to the page. I came across this article in my research of Education Law and the ADA. Some portions of the current page, where citations are requested seem to be speculative, but I can't say for certain because I only know whats in the case law. Perhaps Dickey is right on the others, I guess it is up to Century40 to back his edits up. Mealoat22 (talk) 18:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

That's simply pasting two copies of the original url (from which the larger chunk of text was pasted). WP is not a source of knowledge - there's no reason for bulk cut/paste from other webpages. Tedickey (talk) 19:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
The website that was cited is rutgers lawschool's online library - it is a direct link to the opinion that decided Hornstine's case. What could be more neutral and cite-worthy than a court opinion? Mealoat22 (talk) 20:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry - the cite is still there (without having to delete the content and supporting cites the gave the topic some balance). Tedickey (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Resume highlights?

The phrase "other resume highlights" and the following bulleted list seem completely nonenyclopedic. If anything, a single sentence listing a few representative items should be plenty. These accomplishments are of interest only as an illustration of her academic reputation and success, which we can pretty well surmise from the story itself. Remove? emw 04:13, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it's important to leave the bit about her being an Olympic torch carrier, as it bears on the honesty of her claim to be so physically disabled as to be incapcable to taking gym class. As for the rest, it can stay or go, so long as the remaining text makes clear that Hornstine was an ambitious, accomplished young woman. Uucp 02:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it sounds like cheerleading-Occassional Wikipedia User

Why is this page so long? this person isnt important, its just one of the hundreds of cheaters who get rejected every year for cheating. Delete this stupid page I'd sayRootBeerFanatic 21:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where is she now?

There is a Blair Hornstine at St. Andrews, as a variety of recent editors have suggested without evidence. Her e-mail address is elided@st-and.ac.uk. I would not feel comfortable including this claim of alma matter in the article without proof that this is the *same* Blair Hornstine. And I, frankly, do not incline to e-mail her and ask. Uucp 22:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Review WP:LIVING for guidelines on how to handle biographies of living people. Also, WP:NOR reminds us that original research in the form of rumor or Internet phonebook searches does not belong here. There is one quote in the bio policy, "Wikipedia is a encyclopedia, not a newspaper." I believe the current ending of "...has kept out of the limelight" is sufficient, and we should not add any speculative information about "where is she now" unless she makes a public statement. I have taken the unusual step of eliding the email address written above; I realize that it can be easily found with a little bit of research, but I see no reason to include the email address of a potentially random, uninvolved person in the Wikipedia talk database. Random Task (T·C) 15:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed an edit just now that mentioned "websites" as a source for Hornstine's current location. Again, we don't know if it's the same person, and WP:NOR this is not the place for investigative encyclopedia writing. Random Task (T·C) 23:45, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kadri Quote Sourcing

Currently the article includes a quote from a school superintendent claiming that Hornstine's father said "he was going to manipulate rules designed to protect disabled students for the purpose of allowing [Blair Hornstine] to win the valedictorian award". This of course is the sort of thing we need to source. The best reference that I found freely available online was http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86469,00.html . I think we can improve the sourcing, however. The Fox News opinion piece begins its mention of the incident as:

This week, a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order barring Moorestown officials from naming co-valedictorians, reports the Los Angeles Times.

So, the story appeared in the Times the week of May 9th, 2003 (but probably not after the 9th) after the judge issued the restraining order. Looking at the four articles that the Times archive returns as hits for "Hornstine" in the whole of 2003, one would probably be eliminated by appearing two days after the Fox News piece. Of the three others, all fall within the correct week; only one of the three, however, mentions in its title and preview the judge's order. So, the article we're looking for appears to be:

The Nation
Top Student Wins Temporary Ban on Split Honor
Judge bars a New Jersey school from naming more than one class of 2003 valedictorian.
John J. Goldman; Los Angeles Times; May 9, 2003; A.41

Hopefully someone either has a subscription to the Times archive or has access to a library with this volume in its holdings. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The quote comes from papers filed by Kadri in the lawsuit. Those papers are part of the public record but not easily accessible by the internet. The quote appeared in a few different publications, including the Fox column, a brief in the NY Post (HEIDI SINGER, $2.7M TIFF OVER TEEN'S TOP HONOR, 3 May 2003), a Weekly Standard article (Jonathan V. Last, First in Her Class, 07/07/2003, Volume 008, Issue 42), and this LA Times article:

The Nation
Student Sues to Be a Sole Valedictorian; Her GPA is best, but school says she had an advantage because she was tutored at home
John J. Goldman; Los Angeles Times; May 8, 2003; A.27

Kadri, local school officials and the Board of Education paint a far different picture. They say that the student's father, New Jersey Superior Court Judge Louis Hornstine, told Kadri during a meeting that he would "use any advantage of the laws and regulations" to give his daughter "the best opportunity to be valedictorian." "In the end, he flatly told the superintendent that he was going to manipulate rules designed to protect disabled students for the purpose of allowing plaintiff to win the valedictorian award," the papers said. In light of the judge's statements and complaints from students that they were not able to "compete fairly on a level field," Kadri launched an investigation. "What he found was a fundamental unfairness, a pattern which suggested that plaintiff had opportunities to gain an advantage no other students enjoyed in competing for the valedictorian/ salutatorian award," the papers said. The superintendent concluded that while other students were limited in their class schedules, Hornstine could take as many honors courses as she wanted because she could schedule them with her home tutors, giving her the opportunity to earn higher weighted grades than her counterparts attending classes full time at school. Court papers said Kadri also discovered occasions that when it appeared Hornstine would be unable to earn a high grade while enrolled in a difficult class in school, she withdrew and sought home instruction.

I would prefer to not use the Fox source to support the quote; I'll add the LA Times article and the Weekly Standard article (which only includes part of the quote) as refs. Random Task (T·C) 21:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I found a picture of her here. I think it can get by with Fair Use, but I'm not sure. Opinions?--Miguel Cervantes 22:04, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I just requested permission here. --Ali 07:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

Several statements in this seem to describe the general community feelings towards Blair. although sources are cited properly, words such as "some" and "most" are used often to describe what the author seems to imply is a straightforward attack on Blair. Regarding bias, all content has to respect WP:NPOV. --Daniel ellis 03:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

At a glance, every such claim is footnoted. Can you point to any examples that aren't? Uucp 13:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying claims are given reliable sources. I'm just saying the wording of certain parts of the article tend to sway the reader towards a sympathetic view of Blair instead of a neutral viewpoint. For example where it is stated that "the town's residents were disgusted at Horstine..." and that "Horstine was immediately isolated from her classmates." It's not the lack of sources, it's the diction that throws the reader to take a certain stance. --Daniel ellis 02:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It is what HAPPENED though...she was isolated...whether that makes u feel pity or not is entirely up to you. Some feel she got what she deserved, others do not. Make ur own judgment (which u clealy have) but don't try to keep pertinent facts out of the story bc u feelshe is getting an unfair shake. Those who steal intellectual property are disgusting human beings who have no regard for a creator;s hard work.

I'm removing the NPOV tag - the POV is not glaringly obvious in this article. If you disagree, feel free to place the tag back on the article. Remember, if you feel that specific diction is biased, you are always free to edit it to remove the bias. I will try to address POV concerns myself in the meantime. Ali (t)(c) 06:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "References"

The references section in this article should be merged into the article text, as in-line references. I have attempted to do this myself, but I do not have access to all the references mentioned in this section. Ali (t)(c) 02:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BLP edit

I received a complaint from someone familiar with this matter saying that the article was biased and that recent attempts to add balance were summarily reverted. I reviewed the article per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (BLP) and found a number of problems which I have attempted to correct. Some of the problems are straightforward, such as use of POV terms like "supposedly" or unsourced sections that appear to be original research or statements that are not supported by the sources cited or the inclusion of a "trivia" section (not permitted under BLP).

There is a broader issue that is more problematic. There are two distinct narratives for this story. It received extensive press coverage which was mostly negative towards Ms. Hornstine, to put it mildly. The other version is told in the Federal District Court opinion. I've largely presented the valedictorian story as described in the court opinion. I believe this comes closest to WP:NPOV. Few facts are in dispute, rather it is which facts that get mentioned that seem to be the difference. For example, many press accounts (and the previous version of our article) dwell on the fact that Ms. Hornstine was not required to take gym, allowing her to take highly weighted AP and honors course instead, but none mention the fact that the runner-up was nonetheless able to take more AP courses than Ms. Hornstine.

I've trimmed the Courier-Journal section to the basic facts. The newspaper stated Hornstine failed to properly attribute sources. It did not use the word "plagiarism." I believe we should use their language, though many later press reports did use that word. The comparisons of text that was in our article are unsourced and I believe unnecessary. She admitted her failure to properly attribute material and apologized. Note that Ms. Hornstine was a minor when she submitted these stories.

I would urge anyone editing this article to carefully review WP:BLP. --agr (talk) 20:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It's trimmed, but has several minor errors. Given the tone of your comments so far, I'm reluctant to repair these. Tedickey (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
How about describing the errors and changes here first? That's always safe. --agr (talk) 23:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Marlyn McGrath Lewis"

The given reference (and about 90% of google hits) give this spelling rather than "Marilyn" in the topic. Tedickey (talk) 22:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed it, thanks. I also removed the link on her name as there doesn't seem to be a likelihood of an article about her. If you disagree, feel free to put it back.--agr (talk) 23:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)