Talk:Bladesmith

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I reverted to the version before the addition of info about katana strength due to blade curvature. There are many myths surrounding Japanese katanas, and if anyone wishes to add anything about them I feel we should talk about what to add first, and make sure we're adding accurate material.

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[edit] This article is garbage.

The article is totally unsourced and reads like it was cobbled together by a bunch of adolescents. Frankly I would suggest deleting it except that I hope someone somewhere actually knows something about the topic.75.183.86.60 16:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry you feel that way - I'm sorry you feel that way, Mister 75.183.86.60. I'm not sure why you are commenting if you aren't "someone who knows something about the topic" but it is your prerogative. As a part-time bladesmith, I wrote 95% of the article myself, using the myriad sources that I drew upon while learning the craft. It would have been great if perhaps an ABS Mastersmith had taken up the task of writing the article, but as none did, I took it upon myself. I agree that I should reference sources, and I hope that I will soon have the time to do so. Meanwhile, this article will at least offer direction and insight to those who seek it, regardless of what you think of it, Mister IP man with no login name. -- Kazrian
I concur with Kazrian's comments. The article does not look like garbage to me. If you do think it is, please indicate what is wrong with it here or edit the article yourself.
  • Personally, I think that the specification of particular grades of steel (which are not defined in WP) is inappropriate, at least until their definition appears in WP.
  • The material on movies is correct. Welding across a break would leave a point of weakness, to reforge a broken sword it would be necessary to pile the fragments, weld them together, and forge a new sword from them. This merely illustrates the ignorance of film makers.
  • I am far from sure that what is said about arrowheads is right. Medieval kings ordered arrowheads in large numbers from smiths; these needed to be of iron in order to pierce chain mail or armour. I can believe that pewter arrowheads were used for hunting, though I have not heard of this before.
  • I would hope that Kazrian can provide his sources, if only by listing a bibliography at the end. Otherwise the contributuions are libale to be categorised as WP:OR and removed. Peterkingiron 09:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I clarified the bit on "arrowheads" -- I was referring to cast arrowheads, not forged arrowheads; many people ask me how to "pour steel arrowheads like they do in Robin Hood" and this is false, steel arrowheads were forged, not cast.
I also added a Bibliography section. I hope to provide specific citations in the future but right now I just don't have the time. Kazrian 11:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi i am 16 years old and i have been bladesmithing for only around 2 years however i do know my fair share about the art. i find the site fairly good and the only problems i found are in the movie section. In the highlander movie although it isn't very well done he actually does reforge the blade not welded one on. the handle easly would have been removed and refitted. also if he didn't reforge the blade why do you think they had the scenes with the soccerors blank( the block of steel) with would have been made for a high quality metal that was folded many times to make it much strongerdue to the complex crystaline structure the procedure made. also since it is a movie was probalbly enchanted or something. Also in the lord of the rings even though the Narsil was welded back together and in real life that would render it fairly useless the reson i think that they would have to is because it most likely had magical properties or something to that effect making it the reson why it was the kings sword to begin with. Also since it is a movie to the vast majority of the adiance the remaking of it rather than the repairing would have been much less dramatic. Any way these are my opionions if you disagree i don't really care. i just thought the more diversity of the opionons will make the page more interesting for people who think otherwise. and also the part about duncan filling in the cracks really makes absolutly no sense and i agree with you on that matter. Also i know my spelling and grammar is extremly bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.115.58 (talk) 20:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


hey im 16 also and ihave been blacksmithing/bladesmithing for about 8 years yes 8 years since i was seven. now I belive this page is good for information but the section on highlander ---> "Another incorrect example of bladesmithing is presented in the movie Highlander III: The Final Dimension. Connor Macleod breaks his Masamune katana and must re-forge it using a block of steel left by the sword's original maker. Some feel that it is implied that he 'fills in the cracks' of his sword blade due to the short amount of time in which he repairs his sword and the difficult shape of the steel block he uses as his material. However, realistically, in order for his blade to be full strength, he would need to completely remake the blade from scratch, and reset it into the handle. There is no way to 'fill in the cracks' of a broken blade with new steel short of forge-welding, and a forge-weld in the middle of a blade like the Masamune would arguably decrease its strength considerably." now for one if you notice in the movie Connors blade completley disintigrates leaving only the handle so he goes of to scotland and digs up his blacksmithing gear. as you notice he tries several times but cannot get it quite right but then i cant remember her name comes with the billet of steel left by masamune and as seen it falls and chips the ceramic tile without sustaning even a scratch noting that it is considerably hard. now if you new anything about japanese swordsmithing you would know that when they start of the peice of metal starts of in much the same ways so "the difficult shape of the steel black" is comlpetley wrong as it is, as it should be noting that the director did reasearch unlike someone who wrote this section. also he ends up re-forgeing the blade and like the previous comment he simply refits the handle and any idiot excuse the language would know that you dont just get a sword and weld it together and you certainly dont fill in the cracks not that there were any as the sword was obliterated and in conclusion this section is completey wrong and like the previous comment leaver sorry for any spelling or grammer mistakes --Stonewall92 (talk) 00:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


I removed the speculation about the reforging of Narsil. This article is supposed to be informative -- discussion like that belongs in a Lord of the Rings article. Kazrian (talk) 05:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese techniques stem from Chinese/Korean, Norse swords

Since Japanese forging techniques (tempering, folding, differing hardness, cross lamination, etc) comes from China, I've added brief descriptions of Chinese and Korean swords. Also removed parts of Norse swords. It is also highly unlikely that a sword would have an iron core with a steel outer jacket. Intranetusa (talk) 10:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the addition of Chinese and Korean sections. I disagree that swords would not have iron cores with tool steel contact surfaces -- this type of construction makes sense and is described in several books as being used by both Norse and Japanese swordcrafters - I will spend some time tonight to find some citations by page number. Kazrian (talk) 21:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, the Japanese/Chinese/Korean sword smith uses a soft 'steel' core with a hard 'steel' jacket. I just don't see why they would use iron when they could take that iron and create much more durable steel. Intranetusa (talk) 00:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I cannot speak of oriental swords, but a common practice in the west was for the body of a blade to be made of wrought iron with a strip of steel welded along the cutting edge, or for a layer steel to be sandwiched between two layers of iron. An iron core with steel surface (as opposed to cutting edges) sounds improbable. I have seen a typology of knives according to the materials in their cross-section, but do not know a reference for this. In the west, steel was a difficult material to produce, and much more expensive than iron; accordingly, it was only used where necessary. For this purpose, there is probably little difference between knives, scythes and swords. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

I have edited the following bits, for clarity and accuracy; 1. The term "Damascus" is not incorrect in referring to pattern welded material. The term "Damascus" and "Damascened" are used to refer to various techniques and materials. None are incorrect. 2. Norse swords- The "Norse" people were not well known for their production of swords, so much as for their use of them. I have provided rudimentary citations from very key sources. I'm sorry if my citation technique is a little rusty. 3. Cast pewter arrowheads- Where are the records of cast pewter arrowheads? This subsection is largely an irrelevance. I recognize that people might need to be set straight about cast arrowheads, but is the swordsmith section the place for it? I haven't removed it, but I have removed reference to pewter arrowheads, for which there is no evidence, either in this article or in the archaeological record.

Concerning this article being garbage- it isn't. It's good that this stuff is getting on Wikipedia, and nobody is going to get it right the first time, all the time. More power to those who make the effort.

[edit] and a bit more

I also removed the reference to the term "Damascus" being inaccurate in pertaining to pattern welded material. The India/Middle Eastern section needs a lot of work, but it's not reaslly my forte, so I'll leave it to some other pedant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhasmanath (talk • contribs) 00:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)