Talk:Betsy Ross flag

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I, Mandy Barberio (MandyBarberio 15:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)), am the author of the article "The First American Flag (Betsy Ross Flag)", in its original location at united-states-flag.com. The original article is under a GFDL license and is free for public use. The copyright tag will be visible on the united-states-flag.com when it is published at the end of the day today, July 26, 2007.

Thanks for creating this page, Mandy. I added some links and references. I also added a new intro section to summarize the article. Then I rounded it out a little with some of the reasons people still think Betsy Ross' story is legit. The debate over the flag is as interesting as the original story she told. I don't expect we'll resolve the question here, but I hope people can read this article and understand the two sides. More importantly, I hope people don't get so wrapped up in the argument over the flag that they forget the liberty and unity which is represents. Mingusboodle 03:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. Thanks for the additions. I think the intro seems one-sided (not really a summary of the article), but otherwise, it looks good. (MandyBarberio 18:11, 27 August 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, I suppose it needs more work. I tried to define what's meant by the "Betsy Ross" flag today (cicle of 5-pointed stars), and to present the short version of the "legend" so we know why the flag carries her name. The bit about the Flag Act of 1777 could be moved or deleted, but that was part of your original intro so I tried to incorporate it. I guess I didn't do too well. Mingusboodle 16:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I think this is also legend: "Betsy Ross never claimed any contribution to the flag design except for the 5-pointed star." There is no record that Betsy Ross claimed any involvement in the making of this flag. Her grandson (Canby) was the one who went on the record with his grandmother's alleged claims. I would change the wording of this to make it historically accurate. (MandyBarberio 15:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC))

It could be changed to "Canby never claimed..." Ross' daughters gave depositions with the same information, though, so we should be careful not to exclude them. Maybe "Ross' descendants never claimed..."? Or we could be redundant with the reference and say "Mastai argues that Ross never claimed..." I suppose it could be incorpated into the article better, but I do think there's an important distinction between the modern view that Betsy Ross invented the flag all by herself versus the more modest claim that she added 5-pointed stars to an existing pattern. Mingusboodle (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Your point about Canby made me read his account again ([1]), and it turns out there are other inaccuracies in this article. Not that anyone takes Canby's account as fact, but if we can't even get his version straight, there's no chance we'll figure out the real history. Mingusboodle (talk) 23:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] George Washington at Princeton

I like the picture, but if you look at the higher resolution version at wikimedia, you'll see that the flag actually has 6-pointed stars, which disqualifies it as an actual Ross flag. It could be that Peale didn't particularly care how many points the stars had... he didn't seem to careful with the stripes, either, although the flags on the ground seem to have some degree of detail. Or perhaps Peale was actually painting a flag with 6-pointed stars arranged in a circle, like Hopkinson is said to have designed. At any rate, I'd say keep the picture, but avoid calling it a "Ross" flag. Mingusboodle (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)