Talk:Bens De Luxe Delicatessen & Restaurant

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[edit] Restaurant's fate: Demolition or preservation?

The article mentions the official sale went through with SIDEV on June 19th. According to all accounts I've read, this was the very day the demolition was to begin, however a few days earlier a small protest/ralley was held in front of Bens opposing it. We're now into late July and the restaurant is still there (and so is the demolition banner). I've not heard anything in local news, was the restuarant saved or is the go ahead for demolition merely delayed? The article will obviously be updated if there's any change but I was wondering if anyone heard any news on the restaurant's fate...--Apple2gs 20:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Mid-September, still no change. The restaurant has now been closed for business well over a year now. I wonder if like many other Montreal landmark buildings, it won't get bordered up and sit empty for years until it falls into a state of disrepair.-Apple2gs 17:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Passing by tonight (glancing through the window) I noticed ALL the old autographed photos were removed from the "Ben's Wall of Fame" area at the back, as well as any signs, plaques, menus and other potential memorabilia hanging from the walls (now stripped bare). Even the sign at the exit that said "Through these doors pass the nicest people in the world: our customers" has been removed. The chairs have been re-stacked too. Looks like they're in the process of finally stripping things down and getting ready to move them out. This rules out the possibility of the preservation of the restaurant as-is. My best guess is in a few more weeks it'll be gutted and demolished.--Apple2gs 01:35, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
As of January 2008, while passing by on the road, I've noticed while the building is still standing, all the bay windows are frosted and iced up. Looks like they've stopped heating the building, which undoubtable is going to speed up its deterioration. Looks as though a few lights are still kept on though, probably to keep it from being vandalized. As of yet, there is still no news about the fate of the building....though not maintaining it (heating) says something. Apple2gs (talk) 13:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
It looks like demolition COULD happen any day now--can anyone confirm that? That city permit duct-taped to the front door basically sounds like if no one (legally) protests the demolition request by April 14th, Ben's will be torn down as planned. That date has come and gone but I've not heard anything on the news. Just wondering if anyone has walked by Ben's in the last few days...are there any wrecking cranes or construction barriers being put up?Apple2gs (talk) 20:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article rewrite and cleanup

This article seems to be more about labour relations than the actual restaurant. Maybe someone who is familiar with the restaurant can add a bit more about its history, I mean it is a local landmark in Montreal after all. Davelapo555 13:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Definitely agree. I'll start some cleanup and rewrites, someone may as well start (I pass by Ben's everyday travelling to and from work, so it's given me some inspiration to do so). :) --Apple2gs 00:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
There, done! Could probably use some more tweaks and touch ups, but it finally looks and reads like an article. I've gotten the bulk of things done though.--Apple2gs 03:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duplicate article

I recently discovered a duplicate article covering Ben's under the name: Ben's Deli. Would be best to intergrate anything not currently covered in the present article, then blank it with a redirect to this main article.--Apple2gs 03:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What were the upper floors at Ben's used for?

There is a second and third floor above Ben's. Looks like they've been sitting empty a number of years judging by the dusty "for rent" signs in the windows, but I just assumed it was rented office space used in the 50's through 80's and mentioned as such in the article. Anyone know what was officially there in the past? Adminstrative office for Ben's? Leased office space? Apartments? Storage?--Apple2gs 03:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


I know from some old guides i have there was a travel agency up there at one time, mrs kravitz had the heat turned off in the 90s, hence the drips in the restaurant

soyonsexpositifs 27 sept 2007

[edit] Spelling

As is clear from the picture, as a Wientraub notes, Bens never had an apostrophe in its name

Ah, researching this a bit it appears that is correct, however it had nothing to do with Quebec's draconian language law--it was always "Bens" since the beginning.
On the subject of spelling, the article needs to be renamed "Bens Restaurant and Deli" however. Is there a simple way to do this?--Apple2gs 04:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the full name be: Bens De Luxe Delicatessen and Restaurant?
Never heard of "De Luxe", the actually title of the restaurant is "Bens Restaurant Deli". As a matter of fact that is what the article should be renamed to. If someone could go ahead and do this, it would be apprechiated.--Apple2gs 20:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Did you ever eat there? I have a really old yellow matches pack (about 25 years old) from Bens with Bens De Luxe Delicatessen and Restaurant on it. Try Googling this, you will find it shows up in several articles. Wonder where the CBC and CTV got the name ....

From online: 15 June 1960, LIBRARY JOURNAL, Pg. 2343, col. 2: Smoked-meat is quite a fad in Montreal, but the onlyimportant Kosher restaurant in this region is BENS DE LUXE DELICATESSEN, 1001 Burnside, behind the Sheraton-Mount Royal ... have to fix the article, because it intimates that the Mecalfe location was behind the Hotel Mont Royal

Once you've seen the error of your ways, and spelling, and renaming, and redirect, I'll clean up the mess you made.


OK ... "Bens Restaurant Deli" is the name on the sign outside the restaurant, I hope you have realized that its not the full name. I'm going to fix everything, including the rabbit warren of redirects you seem to have created.RCHussar 02:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Story tag

Since anonymous contributors removed it twice, I'll give some examples of story style: "at the height of its glory", "had a charm that matched its menu", "to mention only a few of the regulars", "One of the most popular and time honoured debates"; the next section is called "Hope for preservation...". All of this is an informal, non-neutral, overly poetic style. It does read like a story and not an encyclopedia entry, and thus needs to be rewritten/fixed.--Boffob 17:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I've jumped back in and decided to fix that, it's more encyclopedic now (not quite done, but it's a good start).---Apple2gs 03:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, so far it's a definite improvement, though it's not finished yet. I refrained for doing such edits myself as, not being familiar with the subject, my changes would probably end up being too blunt.--Boffob 05:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Boffob, why don't you try your hand at editing, because you couldn't be worse than Apple2gs, who writes like he is trying to talk with his foot in his mouth. Or, more to the point, badly.For instance, he supposedly "edits" to write: "It was often debated which, of Bens or Schwartz's (another world famous Deli in Montreal), had the most preferable hot smoked meat sandwich. " Sweet Lord and little baby Jesus. Tears come to my pained eyes. Try ... "Montrealers often debated whether Ben's or Schwartz's had the best smoked meat." Hmmm, just half the words, parsimonious, to the point. Dear Lord, wikipedia is refuge for the talentless.216.254.163.112 11:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be a bit clumsy sounding (it looks fine to me) but it is neutral point of view, while "Most popular and time honoured debate" is not, and "Montrealers often debated..." is also dubious. Smoked meat is far from the most common subject of debates in Montreal, hence using "it was often debated" allows to contextualize the issue: that is, with respect to debates relating to Montreal smoked meat, Ben's vs Schwartz's was a common one.--Boffob 12:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Lighten up 216.254.163.112, I was just rewording someone else's paragraph to remove their opinionated statement while trying to keep intact what they had to contribute. Things need to be factual and neutral in these articles, which was my goal in that edit. And I never said I was finished (note I said "NOT quite done..." above), you or anyone else here are free to help rework things further; isn't that the idea behind Wikipedia? I don't claim this to be a master piece of writing, I just wanted to get the facts down and have some background on the restaurant--that was sorely lacking before I jumped in and rewrote pretty much the whole article from the ground up.
Looking at your IP address (216.254.xxx.xxx) I see you're the same guy who anonymously insulted me for using the official English (gasp, blasphemy in the "nation" of Quebec!) name for the Olympic Stadium (Montreal) (versus "Le Stade Olympic"), and so I can only guess your reaction is politically motivated. If you have something construct to say about an article, go ahead, but childish insults and flames (especially hiding anonymously behind them) have no place here. If you think I'm being too wordy, then by all means rework it to something more brief and matter of fact. If you don't like what I've written, you can always revert the article back into what it original was, a paragraph or two describing reasons for the dispute between Bens and its union workers--Apple2gs 22:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

"Politically motivated" HA! Pal, I'm as anal retentive anglo-Montrealer as they come. I miss my O'Keefe, got my degrees downtown, watched the Als, Habs and Expos, bought my 'ashish at Berri Metro, partied at Maz, the Snowdon, the Royal, the Peel, and places too many to forget. My problem with you isn't political. My problem is with the fact that you can't write worth a colis de tabernac. You stink. I have some advice, that served me well with my Master's thesis. Edit. Then edit again. Then again. And every time try to take out more words. Then read it. Remember, you are inflicting this on other people. And try to respect the Quebec culture and language. Or did you miss the last 50 years of Canadian politics?216.254.160.32 00:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I think a better summary of what you are is an insecure jerk who has to HIDE behind an ANONYMOUS account, and apparently has nothing better to do than hang around Wikipedia trying to be a troll. And yeah, you claim to be be anglo-Montreal telling me "try to respect the Quebec culture and language", yeah right, sure you are. I guess you believe in the injustices here, that one culture is superior to another, and other all cultures and languages in Quebec (particularly English) need to be made invisible. That is why you're on my case, because you think Quebec's xenophobic language "laws" should extend onto Wikipedia. I doubt you'd be hounding my writing style if not for that edit I made on the Olympic Stadium article. Sounds like you're an adult based on how far back you go, but if I didn't know any better I'd think you were a kid going by your level of maturity and lack of tact. Anyways, go on hiding under your anonymous account, I'll just keep on ignoring you for what you are...a troll looking to cause a stir for amusement because you've obviously nothing better to do. I wonder if you have the courage to post under your real account name...nah, then you couldn't troll.--Apple2gs 21:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I write much better than you do, and know more about the subjects than you do. That has to count for something ... wait, this is wikipedia, I forgot, where the truth doesn't matter. Merci.216.254.157.64 22:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and you have some galling nerve ... OK, just what is your full name, given and proper, and where do you live, with full address. I'm waiting ... Right ... some "courage" 216.254.157.64 22:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


You guys have definitely won the "Best Fight on a Deli Talk Page" Award —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.237.133 (talk) 07:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Editing criticisms

Your edits are ruining this article. Generally, one expects edits to REDUCE the word count. Yours tend to add useless adjectives (eg: Ben's, prolonged) or add unsupported assertions (eg: tobacco-confectionary) or obvious verbiage (eg: Ben Kravitz's grandson.) Additionally, you reorder the sequence of things poorly. Good editing takes time and consideration, so please think long and hard before you ruin this article. I dined and drank many a time at Ben's. It was a favourite pit stop of ours in my university days. A tear came to my eye when it closed. Don't ruin this article, as it ruins memories of this fine establishment.207.112.30.108 (talk) 14:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

That's a bit more constructive than your last comments that were removed (as for tactful, well...that remains to be seen. I've changed your header to tone it down). Ruined the article? Don't quite agree. Ironically the great and wonderful article that you keep saying *I* ruined and should stay away from originated from and was written by *me*--go back to the beginning of the edit history, I rewrote the article from the ground up.
Sure, I can get overly wordy, and I'm not perfect, but why not just go rework so its more efficient. That's what Wikipedia is all about. Blindly wiping out ALL my edits just because you have a grudge against me isn't being very constructive or helpful. If you want to, you can revert back before I ever touched the article...you'll find it being nothing more than a long blurb about the union dispute. You might also want to log in with your Wikipedia account (I know you have one) rather than hiding anonymously. Though I'll take some consideration in what you say--you do have a point about reducing word count, the simpler, the better. Makes an easier read.
Incidentally, about the tobacco-confectinary, have a look here: http://www.montrealmirror.com/2007/011807/news1.html
(first I ever heard of it, but if its true, it should be added back in).Apple2gs (talk) 07:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)