Talk:Beneath the Planet of the Apes
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This article is part of Wikiproject Planet of the Apes, which aims to build an encyclopedic guide to the Planet of the Apes science fiction franchise on Wikipedia. To participate, you can improve this article or visit the project page for more information. |
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[edit] Accidental activation of the Doomsday Bomb?
In the trivia section it says that in the original script Taylor's activation of the bomb was deliberate, but in the final movie version it is accidental. I saw this movie not long after it came out, and many times since and it always appeared deliberate to me. Does anyone here recall it looking accidental? To my eyes it always looked like Taylor made a dash for the activation button, was shot, but still managed to push down the plunger. Rob Banzai 23:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
- I have the same opinion; it looks deliberate. In one of the documentaries included on one of the DVDs, Charlton Heston says that destroying the world was his idea so that there could be no sequels. This didn't work as intended, but at least he didn't have to be in them. (He didn't want to be in the Beneath sequel which is why he doesn't have much screen time.) Val42 15:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- In the novelization and the Gold Key Comic adaptation it's much more obviously accidental; after Brent is shot, Taylor dashes to the bomb. He's shot and bodily falls on the control panel. It always looked to me like he reached up to the panel, perhaps to keep from falling, perhaps for help from Zaius, and just happened to clutch the red button. CFLeon 06:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Watch the film again. He was mortally wounded. He had reached out to Zaius pleading "Help me!" Zaius' reply was to curse him -- Brent is killed -- Taylor says "You bloody bastard!" and dies... and falls with his outstreached hand landing on the detonation plunger. A dead man can do nothing. Since he was dead when it happened, that would make the action an accident. Also, in both the novelization and the Marvel comics adaptation, his action was deliberate.-- Jason Palpatine 00:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- It looked deliberate to me. Reading this came as a complete surprise. I came here to make a note on it and found there are already others dubious about the claim it was supposed to have been an accident, judging from the scene on film. To Jason: Just because someone's strength fails and he falls does not mean he is dead. Real death, unlike most movie deaths, is not instantaneous or before one hits the ground. The fact that his hand catches and holds the red button pulling it down shows that he was not dead. There would usually have been no grip in a dead man's hand to catch and hold the button; it is completely flaccid. A "death grip" develops when one dies with one's hand wrapped around something and rigor mortis sets in some hours later. The exception, cadaveric spasm, is a rare nervous reaction where a grip continues from the moment of death. But that type of grip indicates one was alive at the time of grasping. Although we see Taylor's hand clenched in pain just before he falls, a grip on the button as depicted would have had to have been initiated by releasing that grip and then grasping the button on the elevated console, else his closed fingers would have just bounced away. After depressing the button, we see his hand relax as one would expect in death or the knowledge that he had accomplished his purpose. That is not a cadaveric spasm, which lasts through rigor mortis. Conclusion: The fall was aimed as best as a dying man can to set off the bomb and rid the universe of the apes who had overrun the world and no script margin notes will convince me otherwise. 74.138.50.148 12:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC) PaCkMaN
- I don't think it's clear whether it's deliberate or not, and IMHO, it's all the better for being left ambiguous. My own interpretation is that it was deliberate. I'm going by Taylor's frame of mind after Nova is killed - "we should let them all die ... it's time it was finished" - as much as anything. I think he means to do it. But, as I said, that's just my interpretation. In the meantime, I've removed this whole bullet from the Trivia section. Can whoever put it in there please cite the source of this story if/when they decide to put it back? I've just watched the Behind the Planet of the Apes documentary, and it's not in the version that I have. --Chilly Penguin 05:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
- Very much deliberate I'd say. When arguing with Zaius before, he says "It's Doomsday! The end of the world." He knows he's lethally wounded and asks "Help me!" - for what else? When his hand comes to the trigger, he holds on to it and pushes down - clearly to be seen. Anyway, as an article should not be biased and this is a point of discussion, the text should be changed in such a way as not to suggest either way, so that any viewer can found out for her/himself. Zac67 (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think it's clear whether it's deliberate or not, and IMHO, it's all the better for being left ambiguous. My own interpretation is that it was deliberate. I'm going by Taylor's frame of mind after Nova is killed - "we should let them all die ... it's time it was finished" - as much as anything. I think he means to do it. But, as I said, that's just my interpretation. In the meantime, I've removed this whole bullet from the Trivia section. Can whoever put it in there please cite the source of this story if/when they decide to put it back? I've just watched the Behind the Planet of the Apes documentary, and it's not in the version that I have. --Chilly Penguin 05:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
- It looked deliberate to me. Reading this came as a complete surprise. I came here to make a note on it and found there are already others dubious about the claim it was supposed to have been an accident, judging from the scene on film. To Jason: Just because someone's strength fails and he falls does not mean he is dead. Real death, unlike most movie deaths, is not instantaneous or before one hits the ground. The fact that his hand catches and holds the red button pulling it down shows that he was not dead. There would usually have been no grip in a dead man's hand to catch and hold the button; it is completely flaccid. A "death grip" develops when one dies with one's hand wrapped around something and rigor mortis sets in some hours later. The exception, cadaveric spasm, is a rare nervous reaction where a grip continues from the moment of death. But that type of grip indicates one was alive at the time of grasping. Although we see Taylor's hand clenched in pain just before he falls, a grip on the button as depicted would have had to have been initiated by releasing that grip and then grasping the button on the elevated console, else his closed fingers would have just bounced away. After depressing the button, we see his hand relax as one would expect in death or the knowledge that he had accomplished his purpose. That is not a cadaveric spasm, which lasts through rigor mortis. Conclusion: The fall was aimed as best as a dying man can to set off the bomb and rid the universe of the apes who had overrun the world and no script margin notes will convince me otherwise. 74.138.50.148 12:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC) PaCkMaN
- Watch the film again. He was mortally wounded. He had reached out to Zaius pleading "Help me!" Zaius' reply was to curse him -- Brent is killed -- Taylor says "You bloody bastard!" and dies... and falls with his outstreached hand landing on the detonation plunger. A dead man can do nothing. Since he was dead when it happened, that would make the action an accident. Also, in both the novelization and the Marvel comics adaptation, his action was deliberate.-- Jason Palpatine 00:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- In the novelization and the Gold Key Comic adaptation it's much more obviously accidental; after Brent is shot, Taylor dashes to the bomb. He's shot and bodily falls on the control panel. It always looked to me like he reached up to the panel, perhaps to keep from falling, perhaps for help from Zaius, and just happened to clutch the red button. CFLeon 06:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Needed clean-up
Removed all references as inadequate. References were not published sources that state clearly the information cited. Also novelizations can not substantiate information on a film. The best reference was notes from the sound track but was not properly added or formatted. Here is the code to use for that;
Full name of film and release version (required), (Year of film release), Film director (required), notes from: Source of citation: Booklet, front cover, liner, etc.... DVD publisher, Location of DVD publisher: Catalog number of the DVD, (Year of DVD release, do not wikilink it).
To use this code hit "Edit" copy code then fill out with proper information and add under references.--Amadscientist 10:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Plot
I re-added the plot tag. Good articles of films don't need a long plot, see Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back and Tenebrae (film). Annie D 11:31, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've shortened the plot summary, as requested. Expect objections. — Val42 00:30, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Whoa, you deleted the trivia as well. I'm not familiar with the film so I was reluctant to work on the article, but I'll try to help out integrating it. Annie D 01:20, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- There are editors that don't think that trivia belongs in encyclopedic articles. Two weeks after such a section gets tagged as trivia, it gets deleted. I've seen this happen on dozens of articles that I'm watching. I figured that since I was going to be removing that tag too, I'd just take care of their concerns as well. — Val42 05:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Whoa, you deleted the trivia as well. I'm not familiar with the film so I was reluctant to work on the article, but I'll try to help out integrating it. Annie D 01:20, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] As Social Commentry
Shouldn`t a paragraph put it into the context of the Cuban missile crisis, and the Vietnam war which was raging at the time?Andycjp (talk) 13:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
- Not really. This was a generic Cold War movie as relevant in the 1950s as the 1960s or 1970s or even early 1980s.
- If you want useless unprovable social commentary, you could add a section on how this film may have led to the popular rise of terrorism.... But it would be wrong. Terrorism is clear in the early 1900s and before (Guy Fawkes). In fact this film may owe everything to early terrorist except the specifics of an atomic device. I can see this movie done with thousands of tons of stored TNT/ammo instead like the 1 Kiloton Black Tom event. 69.23.124.142 (talk) 05:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:BtPotA-Brent.JPG
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:BtPotA-mutantsandtheirgod.JPG
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:BtPotA-theend.JPG
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
