Talk:Battlement

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[edit] Proposed merger with Battlement

Agree. One article should be able to cover this type of structure. Although redirects should be used for all the various terms. Also What about merging Machiolation here? Brendandh 15:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. Crenellation has a distinct meaning with important social overtones missing from battlement. In effect crenellation means 'battlements as an expression of high social rank.'Castellddu 01:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Though very similar in appearance, crenellation can be used in a decorative fashion. True, in some languages there is no differentiation, but people sometimes would look for a specific difference, not the generalisation. Definite disagree for machicolation, as the fuction of these two vastly differs. --Morgiliath 17:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Important to keep a seperate article about crenellation/ castellation given its importance as a decorative feature (and certainly not a defensive feature!)in, for example, Victorian houses (often over bay fronted windows) and castellated neo-gothic buildings. To treat battlement and crenellation because of a similarity is to obscure a whole area of architectural history. Please don't generalise in such a way. Robotforaday 14:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. The crenellation is the distinct pattern, while the battlements are just the walkway and such like.

Disagree. It is indeed important to resist generalisation. In casual usage "Battlement" and "Crenelation" may be interchangeable, but technically they are not quite the same, neither are they the same in spirit; crenelation being more descriptive of form and battlement being more descriptive of function. Additionally, not all crenelations are battlements (i.e. having a parapet walk) and it is arguable that not all battlements are crenelations, such as the case of battlements formed by a parapet with enclosed loophole embrasures and no actual crenels. I would suggest that crenelation only refers to the 'crenulated' profile of alternating crenels and merlons, and not to the rest of the battlement's hoards and machicolations. Normally you could consult Viollet-le-Duc[1] on these matters, but in this case he's enormously unhelpful. Not only does he not give a seperate definition in Dictionary of French Architecture from the 11th to the 16th Centuries for the word Parapet, but the collective term "battlement" doesn't exist in French. Instead we get the Fortifications Superieures broken down into Crenelages and Machicoulis
I believe you can compare this proposed merger with the misguided merger of "Crenel" and "Embrasure", which are by no means the same thing within an encyclopedic context; although, in casual or amateur usage they may be interchanged without risk of embarrassment, historically they are not the same. )Tvanhulzen (talk) 18:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)