Talk:Battle of Thermopylae in popular culture

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[edit] Video Games

As they are part of popular culture, I think there should be a video games section. Personally, this would be an interesting section, since video games are some of the few popular culture references that don't specifically go straight to the Thermopylae battle. Some notable games that have been influenced by Spartan culture that I can think of off the top of my head would be Halo, the Age of Empires series plus Age of Mythology, Rome: Total War, Spartan: Total Warrior. Shrumster 11:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but the rest of the article could probably use a re-write as well, since many items seem to assume that only the Battle of Thermopylae is ever referenced... indeed the current article could well be called Thermopylae in Popular Culture. 212.57.228.21 11:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

And there's the mentioning of Thermopylae in the last battle scene in The Last Samurai.

I question putting Halo in there as all that it relates to Sparta is the name Spartan II, I don't think it relates specically to Sparta in an historical contexts say compared with God of War which states that he is a ex-Spartan commander. I'll change this in 2 days if no one objects. Alchemy101 12:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Halo should be removed as it contains only minor references to Sparta. 76.102.63.117 02:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Why has the ancient epitaph not been mentioned on this page? 'Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws, we lie' This is the most poignant reminder of the battle.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.1.171.111 (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd invite you all to go read the back-story to Halo in order to get a feel of the level of Spartan culture they put into the game. Particularly the training the Master Cheif goes though, lessons on teamwork, tactics, resourcefulness, etc. In retrospect, Halo's fictional SPARTAN-II program does make a futuristic Spartan. I'm not gonna rip line out of the book and quote them here unless it's really necessary, but Halo is the forefront for Video Games making references to the Spartan military. Ghostalker 07:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

They actually do reference Sparta quite a bit in the Halo backstory, as has been mentioned. In 'The Fall of Reach', they explicitly mention and explain Thermopylae several times as well as the namesake for the unit's designation. Finally, several aspects of the plot (i.e. trained from approximately 7 to be an elite, well-equiped and cohesive fighting unit unwilling to accept defeat against numerically superior forces) clearly show the Spartan influence. TheNobleDuke 05:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I believe that the "Sparta in Popular Culture" section should be limited to games that actually take place in or directly feature Sparta, not vaguely reference it. 76.102.63.21 01:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Why has Halo been added again? First of all, the section incorrectly states that Master Chief is a Spartan (not a SPARTAN), which may lead to confusion in non-Halo aficionados. Second of all, as the issue of whether or not Halo should remain is still under debate here, I don't believe another poorly thought-out paragraph on the subject should be added. 24.6.14.215 00:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be mentioned at the very least. If you don't want to add the game, at least add "The Fall of Reach" to the books section. There is very clearly a section devoted to discussing sparta and the spartan way of life.

I don't have any objections to adding 'Fall of Reach' to the books section if it really does thoroughly cite Sparta, however the Video Game section, as is being discussed here, should not have Halo added (see above).24.6.14.215 03:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another aspect of Sparta in popular culture

I think this article leaves out the two other aspects of Spartn culture that the city state is remembered for. 1) As a "fascist", "militaristic" spoil to "democratic". "humanist" Athens. 2) And as slave holders, most famously of the Messenian helots. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.49.242.230 (talk) 13:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

I have moved the Sparta in popular culture to Battle of Thermopylae in popular culture as all of the information came cut from the Battle of Thermopylae page and had nothing to do with Sparta in general. So the above may have to wait until someone changes "Sparta in popular culture" from a redirect into an article. --Philip Baird Shearer 06:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] And ofcourse

And Sparta is of course also famous for pederasty:

According to Erich Bethe,

What the Dorians brought was boy-love as a publicly recognized and honorable institution. The Dorians strictly regulated the love relationship between man and boy and treated it as a very important arrangement very publicly with honorable earnestness under the protection of the family, society, the state, and religion. . . . In Sparta, Crete, and Thebes. . . . the education of the ruling class, resting on pederasty, [was directed towards] arete and manly virtue, which principally manifested itself in war.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_pederasty

Ahassan05 13:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)ahassan05

How does this relate to "Sparta in Popular Culture"? 24.6.14.215 03:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Because these are other aspects of Spartan culture that are prevalent in popular culture. This article focuses on Thermopylae in Popular culture. But generally when one uses the term Spartan, or when Sparta is depicted in literature the allusion has the flavor of militarism, an idea which is not at all captured by this article. This artile ought to be renamed Thermopylae in popular culture.

I have moved the Sparta in popular culture to Battle of Thermopylae in popular culture as all of the information came cut from the Battle of Thermopylae page and had nothing to do with Sparta in general. So the above may have to wait until someone changes "Sparta in popular culture" from a redirect into an article. --Philip Baird Shearer 06:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

God of War should not be on the list, it is a reference to Sparta but not Thermopylae itself. 65.106.151.211 23:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek story

Surley this article should have some info on the effect of the battle in modern day greece(Gnevin 08:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC))

It contains a link to the actual battle which covers the general grounding of the role of the battle in the war against the Persians. However if you know of any specific impacts of the Battle itself on Greece, feel free to be bold.

[edit] Cicero quote

I removed the Cicero quote, which was in the wrong spot as it was not a poem, and in fact was not written by Cicero at all. It's adapted from his Tusculan Disputations, with additional info from Herodotus I suppose, but it actually comes from chapter 5 of Wheelock's Latin. Cicero would have never written something so easy to read! Adam Bishop (talk) 16:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)