Talk:Battle of Poltava
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[edit] Message to Wikipedia
I notice alot of Russian constantly is on wikipedia and twist information and make it false, lock this page after making some corrections or be more aware of changes thats made.
[edit] Mazepa and his Cossacks
Could someone say some more about Mazepa and his Cossacks, specifically why there were so few of them, and what happened to them during and after the battle? All they get is a brief mention early on in the article. TonySever 14:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
who created this story in the first place? The russian cav wasnt the reason the swedish line broke, it was the russian inf line that was longer than the swedish line and simply outflanked it
Mazepas soldiers that didnt die on the battlefield was put to death after surrendering because of their treason
Who wrote the following: "Further north, the Swedish attack took a turn for the worse when a Russian counter-attack began at 10:10 by a cavalry force commanded by General Menshikov on the Swedish right flank which led to the Swedish infantry being isolated in the open by the Russian infantry in the center, personally led by Peter. Then another Russian cavalry attack at 10:30, commanded by General Bauer, attacked the Swedish left flank and rear, breaking the Swedish lines within 15 minutes" Because its NOT true. (a swede) The Russian cav had routed from the battlefield.
29/3/2007----
"and had to turn over command to Field Marshal Carl Gustav Rehnskiöld and General Adam Lewenhaupt. This was made all the more unfortunate by the divergent personalities of the two generals. Unfortunally when the high command decided to plan the battle they forgot to tell the subordniated commanders." No, Rehnskiöld formulated the plan with the king. The only other ones with full knowledge of the plan was count Carl Piper and colonel Gustav Henrik von Siegroth. The latter one was to be the appointed "colonel for the day", staff officer for the king. However, one of the earliest casualties was von Siegroth, who fell before he had informed the officer in charge of one of the columns of infantry, major general Roos his final orders.
"The battle began before dawn at 3:45 a.m. on June 28, with the Swedes advancing boldly against the Russian fortified lines. At first, the battle started off in a traditional fashion, with the better trained Swedes pressing in on the Russians' redoubts, overrunning a few Russian defensive redoubts." The problem was that the Russians were in the process of building additional redoubts at the time the Swedish troops were forming up for attack. This led to the attack being somewhat hastened. The outermost 2 redoubts that had still not been fully finished were easily taken, but then because he was not aware of the plan of action, Roos used his column to attempt to capture also the next redoubt, instead of BYPASSING it as the other column(s), thereby placing 1/3 of the Swedish troops in a poor position, taking casualties fighting for no good reason and in the end was forced to surrender with the remains of his six battalions after a pointless and loosing battle against Russian reinforcments.
"The Swedish infantry, commanded by General Lewenhaupt, attempted to attack the Russians. But the Swedish advance soon faltered, partly because that the infantry got the order to withdraw and reorganise." No, Lewenhaupt tried to attack the Russian camp with his OWN column of troops after having successfully bypassed the redoubt line. As it was only a couple of battalions, Rehnskiöld recalled him.
"With over 1,000 casualties and ammunition running low, Roos was forced to surrender his command." Roughly 400 out of the 2600 remained when he surrendered.
"They were on the verge of a breakthrough and needed the cavallery, unfortunally it was disorganised." The left wing of Swedish troops, Östgöta and Närke regiments fell behind the push forward by the other Swedish troops giving the Russians a gap to advance through and simply overwhelm the already severly tried Swedish infantry. The cavalry however had been getting ready to support the attack, but was now instead used to attempt to cover for a retreat. If they were disorganised, they couldnt have done that?
Source: "Svenska slagfält" Ericson, Hårdstedt, Iko, Sjöblom, Åselius. Published by Wahlström och Widstrand 2003.
[edit] Much false information.
Many sources say that the swedes had very little firepowder, since it had been destroyed by many reasons on the way there, so the most muskets were useless.
- Yes, that's true that Swedes suffered a lot, there was of shortage of food and fourage. Alexandre Koriakine 23:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Two things, Its true that the swedes didn't have any firepowder, and this should be mentioned in the article and the second thing is that 18,000 prisoners weren't taken during the battle, about 2000 swedes were captured in the battle, however a unit of several thousand men were forced to surrender three days after the battle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unit12360 (talk • contribs) 14:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- From one point it is correct, but many can assume it's the same battle: swedes were defeated and directly pursued, prisoners taken. So better to write both numbers with explanations. Alexandre Koriakine 13:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Aftermath
Why did it turn the tide of the war?
The article in general and the battle section in particular show bias. Swedish advances and movements are described in detail. The condition of Swedish army is discussed. Swedish generals are named. Their personalities discussed. The Russians simply act as a background. The use of the word "unfortunately" in the battle section adds to the bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.7.244.172 (talk) 18:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Casualties
I know that Russians mostly see the battle of Poltava as one 14-days battle were the surrender at Perevolochna but in Wikipedia there are already a page for Perevolochna, therefore I will restore the page to only show the casaulties in the actual battle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irtehprwn (talk • contribs) 13:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- We both know that you are a vandal and that your numbers are those pulled directly from your behind to fit your own agenda so who are you kidding? Shipseggsbasket (talk) 21:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Surrender at Perevolochna should merge with this article
Surrender at Perevolochna should merge with this article because:
Only 59 google results of "Surrender at Perevolochna"
The reason is because they are considered part of the same battle. The surrender 3 days later is considered a direct consequence of the Battle. The "Surrender at Perevolochna" that was created is a fiction, the surrender was part of the Battle of Poltava, as evidenced by the mere 59 Google hits for "Surrender at Perevolochna".--Berkunt (talk) 03:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
