Talk:Battle of Myriokephalon

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This article states that the battle took place in the Meander Valley and "near Ankara." But the Meander Valley ends far from Ankara... Brutannica 07:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

There are several problems. At first Andronicus was not killed in an ambush, but during the route of his army from the walls of Neokaisarea . The second is that there was time interval between this attack and Myriokephalon expedition. The third is that the Seljuks were waiting for the Byzantines in the pass and prepared their position quite well. The fourth is that the violation of the peace treaty by Manuel was probably a result of the Trucoman attack on the retreating Byzantine columns after the battle.

Another major disadvantage is a total silence of the author about crusading aims of the whole expedition. Not to speak about the analysis of the vents after the battle which is weak and shows bad knowledge of original sources (Roman Shlyakhtin)

You are welcomed and encouraged to fix the article. Adam Bishop 08:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree about the analysis of the events after the battle. I consider it to be a spot-on, well informed and accurate analysis. Read John Haldon's analysis of the battle in 'The Byzantine Wars', or read J. Birkenmeier's 'development of the Komnenian army', and you will see the truth of this. That said, as Adam says, if you want to improve the article then please do so; as long as your edits cite valid sources, there should be no problem. Bigdaddy1204 08:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Bigdaddy - besides whilst the battle did turn out to halt the Byzantine reconquest, it had the potential of not being a disaster as Myriokephalon is not often mentioned as a declining point of the Empire.

[edit] Contradictions

The "background" section says "...He sent part of the army under Andronicus Vatatzes towards Amasia while his larger force marched towards the Seljuk capital at Iconium. Both routes lay on a heavily wooded route, where the Turks could easily hide and set up ambushes; the army moving towards Amasia was destroyed in one such ambush, and Turkish envoys brought Andronicus's head." whereas the "battle" section says "...The troops were divided into a vanguard of infantry, and cavalry, archers, and other infantry following behind them; the right wing led by Baldwin of Antioch and the Byzantine left wing was led by John Cantacuzenus. The rear was commanded by Andronicus Vatatzes."

How could the rear be commanded by Andronicus Vatatzes if he died before the battle?

Another problem is in the "outcome". The second passage says "Manuel continued to meet the Seljuks in smaller battles with some success, until he died in 1180" but the third says "Manuel never again attacked the Turks". Does it mean there were more battles but the Byzantines were purely on the defensive? Whatever the case, it should be clarified. Top.Squark 10:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)