Talk:Battle of Messines

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[edit] Duplication in Passchendaele

The section Passchendaele#Messines_Ridge is actually longer than this article; some content should be merged here. regards, High on a tree 07:30, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Well it has been almost a year since you said that, but thanks for the info I will try to improve this article by merging here later. HighInBC 15:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I just watched a documentary on German TV, confirming the 10.000 death toll figure given in the article, as well as the bit about the explosions being registered as an earthquake in Switzerland.

It also confirmed the site of an unexploded mine underneath a local farmhouse, as given in the Mesen article [1]. The documentary said that, although older history books talk of two unexploded mines in total [as mentioned in the article], it is now deduced from wartime maps that the mine which exploded in 1955 was one of four unexploded mines (that would be IN ADDITION to the one under the farmhouse).

I only got the German title for the documentary, but I've got the name of the producer [Andy Webb] and the productione company [One on One production ltd], which makes it hightly likely that its original title was "Ultimate Explosions" (from the documentary series "The Ultimates") - apparently running on "Five" in the UK, as well as on "Discovery Channel Canada".


Two suggestions: - could someone cut the farmhouse bit from the "Mesen" article [where it sticks out like a sore thumb] and add it to this article here?

- the German wikipedia article "Schlacht von Messines" - apart from additional information for which there are no detailed sources given - has a list of English weblinks, which might also be a nice addition to this article.

[edit] consequences

I would think that there were some consequences of the overwhelming victory at Messines. For instance, the "ease" with which the British took the ridge likely made Haig cocky, leading to the total slaughter of Passchendaele. Just a thought. I might add that in later.

Cam 03:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

More correctly, British commanders failed to realize exactly what made the Messines operation so successful. Consequently, expectations for the Passchendaele offensive were overblown (perhaps even more than usual). It should probably be noted in the article that the results of Messines were misinterpreted at the time, but I don't know how much more we can read into this. Carom 03:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mines

The numbers don't add up here. If 21 mines were laid, and 19 were detonated, it isn't possible that 2 were found be the Germans and 2 were left undetonated, one of which later exploded, and one of which is still buried. I haven't read the Wolff book, but I haven't located any other author that mentions the discovery of two of the mines - what is his basis for saying this? Or were more mines laid than we have accounted for in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carom (talk • contribs)

I've been wondering about that somewhat myself. I've read a bit of the Hart book, and it says 21, the "Turning Points in History" says that it was 21, but the Wolff book says 19. My guess is that I misinterpreted and one was discovered (or that the Germans came so close to it that they decided to remove it) and the other one was left unexploded. The "Aftermath" says that two weren't detonated, because they were outside of the offensive. If they were on Hill 60 (northernmost sector of attack), then one of them was removed because German tunellers were getting too close to the chamber (It's also entirely likely that they simply filled in the chamber and dismantled the detonation equipment, I hadn't thought of that). I'll re-check that later, and then get back to you on your talk page.

Cam 15:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I re-read the bit on the mines, and it DOES say 20. It also says that the Germans found one, blew a defensive mine, and wrecked the gallery. However, that doesn't mean the mine is gone. It's entirely possible that THAT was the one hit by lightning (or the one not yet found), the Wolff book doesn't go into any of the after-details about the mines. I'll look for more info. Although I find it odd that the Wolff book says 20 were dug in the first place, while all my other sources say 22. I'll check that out.

Cam 15:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)