Talk:Battle of Hue

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There are 4 pictures on this page and all of them are of american marines. ARVN:452 KIA; 2,123 WIA US:216 KIA; 1,584 WIA.

The ARVN deserves at least 50 percent of the pictures since their casualties were way higher than the Americans and there were more ARVN involved in the battle than US troops85.164.12.144 06:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

If you have additional information to add then by all means do so.--Looper5920 12:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, the ARVN deserve some credit. But the Americans on here only want to turn everything into an AMERICAN victory.Canpark 03:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I hate to have to explain this but the Americans did not take lower casualties than the ARVN except in the literal sense, the Americans sent in twenty five hundred men and and took eighteen hundred casualties exactly. The ARVN sent in the other twenty seven thousand or so and took two thousand five hundred and twenty five casualties. This is the difference between 73 percent casualties and less then 10 percent. Colin 8 16:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC) 16:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, if you have additional information to add then by all means do so. You can complain about the article as is or do some research and add to it.--Looper5920 04:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


The Battle of Hue posted on August 25, 2006.--James L. Burgess 07:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC) I am going to change the title simply to Battle of Hue because its how most other Battles are listed and it will make it easier to find.--Colin 8 18:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

"Clearing the way through the city's debris-covered avenues came U.S. tanks. American Skyhawk helicopters dropped bombs and napalm on the Citadel. From a crescent-shaped position along the west wall, the enemy was able to keep a steady stream of supplies and reinforcements flowing into the Citadel."


Skyhawks were American A4 attack aircraft. Furthermorehelicopters didn't engage in the dropping of bombs and naplam on the grounds that bombs would severely interrupt airflow around a helo's rotors as would napalm.

Contents

[edit] TopGun

TopGun, DON'T f*** up things again - it's their SEPARATE claims to COMBINE - see the globalsecurity.org link, "over 5,000" total; I'm seriously fed up with you reverting my coorections. In case if you are blind or whatever, The allies claimed over 5,000 Communists killed in the city and an estimated 3,000 killed in the fighting in the surrounding area. The ARVN's of 3,000 is overstimate, because their/enemy losses ratio is supposedly better than the Marines' - impossible. --HanzoHattori 10:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crockspot (now you)

You didn't understood. It wasn't "1,500 KIA (according to American sources) [and] 3,000 KIA (according to South Vietnamese sources)", BBC wrote it was 1,500 kills claimed by the Americans and 3,000 kills claimed by the South Vietnamese (the latter number unreliable). See the other sources - the combined Allied claim was over 5,000 (plus 3,000 more outside):

  • The allies claimed over 5,000 Communists killed in the city[1]
  • Communist casualities were estimated at more than 5000 killed and 98 captured.[2]
  • The NVA and Vietcong suffered 5,000 dead[3]
  • The battle ended with a devastating North Vietnamese defeat, in which the communists lost more than 5,000 killed [4]

And so on. Learn how to read with understanding (it's not that hard!) and also discuss stuff on the article's talk page. And, really, I know better. It's a hard fact for you, maybe. --HanzoHattori 21:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Excuse me, but I did not make content edits. I was improving the existing citations. You have removed valid flags on references that DO NOT verify the claims. You are vandalizing this article, please stop now. If you want to make changes, do them right, do not undo my valid work. I don't even know (or care) what you are ranting about. Yes, now me, get used to it, because I am improving all of the Vietnam Battle references, and if you keep reverting my hours of work, I will drag your ass into arbitration. - Crockspot 21:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope. You want, you put your "valid flags on references" back (I don't even what are you now talking about, but go on if you want - history is ready, so copy/paste). --HanzoHattori 21:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

And don't touch my ass, unless you're a hot chick. As you can see: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Hue&diff=123633955&oldid=121211150 I probably did much more today than your precious "valid flags on references", whatever you mean (which I don't think is more important than the basic things like how many people were killed, how many fought, and who commanded them, anyway). --HanzoHattori 21:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:HanzoHattori reported by User:Crockspot (Result:) - Crockspot 21:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • It's obvious you don't give a rat's ass what work others did. I spent hours looking up new sources, verifying the existing sources, flagging those sources that did not verify, and formatting all the sources. Maybe when you return from your block, you will have a better attitude. Look through my edit history. I would wager that I have done more work on Vietnam articles in the last two weeks than you have ever done. - Crockspot 21:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Combining sources

I left this comment on Hanzo's talk page, so that he could have the opportunity to reply while blocked, but it really should be here too: Combining two different sources to come up with a new number would qualify as original research. If there are discrepancies in the numbers, I think the proper way to present that would be to give both sets of numbers, and note the discrepancy, not synthesize new numbers. I am refraining from editing the article so that I don't violate 3RR myself. I hope that when your block expires, that we can work together, rather than against each other. My goal is to improve and increase the sourcing of these Vietnam Battle articles, particularly with contemporary news reporting. If there are sources that conflict with each other, they should all be presented in a neutral and descriptive way, so that the reader understands that there are discrepancies. In my view, more reliable sources are always better, no matter what their claim is. - Crockspot 14:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC) - Crockspot 14:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not "combining two different sources". No. Listen. I thought it was clear (I presented you multiple sources for 5,000), but you didn't understand.

Don't you really understand now what the BBC man meant?

To quote directly: "The South Vietnamese claim to have killed nearly 3,000 in the battle for Hue, while the Americans say they have killed 1,500."

I'll quote directly once again still, and I'll highlight to you: The South Vietnamese claim to have killed nearly 3,000 in the battle for Hue, while the Americans say they have killed 1,500.

I'll try this as clear as possible. like to the child:

  • It's not "1,500 KIA (according to American sources)" - It's "US command says US soldiers killed 1,500 enemy soldiers".
  • It's not "3,000 KIA (according to South Vietnamese sources)" - It's "ARVN command claimed ARVN soldiers killed 3,000 enemy soldiers".

About "original research", this is what you were doing, by misinterpreting one source and ignoring multiple others. --HanzoHattori 20:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead ehistory links

Don't have time to follow through right now, but I have a lead to replace the dead links that are flagged in the article here. The citations should actually be book citations, with these urls added for convenience. If someone has time to reverify the proper links, I can turn them into book cites later. - Crockspot 19:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

"The South Vietnamese Army and three understrength U.S. Marine battalions, consisting of fewer than 2,500 men, attacked and defeated more than 10,000 entrenched North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers, taking the city of Huế (pop. 140,000) for South Vietnam.". What the heck? The number of American and ARVN troops I saw in the table was 30000+ (though citation needed). Why the huge gap? And since when has the VC become the "enemy"? I didn't see American and ARVN troops referred as "enemy" anywhere in the article. Has the English wikipedia become a place where the US and allies are the good guys and their rival counterparts on the other side?Hawkie 16:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hue ARVN victory.jpg

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BetacommandBot 02:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

  • Ensured that the article is: within project scope, tagged for task forces, and assessed for class.
  • The article would benefit from: in-text citations. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)