Talk:Barbie/Archive 2
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Text cleanup
The article has been given a cleanup as it had become longer than preferable under Wikipedia guidelines. Barbie is such a large subject that it is not practical to list everything that has ever been said about her, and the article has to stay within a length that is of interest to the general reader. Please bear this in mind when editing the page. --Ianmacm 17:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
The page is still longer than preferable, mainly due to the Timeline at the bottom of the page. It is probably outside the scope of the article to list every Barbie and Limited Collectors Edition etc, and the Timeline would look better if it restricted itself to important dates in the development of Barbie. I propose to do this when more time is available. --Ianmacm 14:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
The timeline has been slimmed down, but anyone wishing to enlarge the page List of Barbie dolls is free to do so. One puzzle is the outcome of the lawsuit: A commercial by automobile company Nissan featuring dolls similar to Barbie and Ken driving in a toy car was the subject of another lawsuit in 1997. Does anyone know what the outcome of this was? There are so many Barbie lawsuits that without a citation this one will be removed. [1] [2] --Ianmacm 14:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC). After a lot of hunting on the internet, I found that Mattel lost this lawsuit. There is also a link to a YouTube video of the commercial in the article.--Ianmacm 15:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I've attempted to edit the timeline to remove things that were not especially important milestones in the history of the Barbie doll. However, the timeline could be edited much more than this. In fact, I don't think a timeline is even necessary in this article. Much of the information listed is redundant, and the portions that aren't redundant and are important enough to warrant inclusion in the article should be moved to the body. It appears someone was using this timeline as a dumping ground for factual information that would more appropriately be included in other sections. Olivix 12:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Misinformation about Barbie's Waist
Mattel did not "widen Barbie's waist" in response to criticism. The waist shape was changed to allow the doll to wear more up do date clothing, particularly low-rise pants. (The previous body couldn't accomodate these types of clothing.) And although the waist was wider from side to side, the circumfrence was almost the same. I have corrected similar statements added to this entry several times in the past but it is always eventually rewritten to include the same misinformation, so it doesn't seem like there's much point in doing it again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.187.189.139 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC).
It is not disputed that the waist of Barbie was redesigned in the late 1990s, along with her hips and lips. Whether the doll now has a larger waist if she were a real woman is hard to say, as there have been many estimates of what Barbie's vital statistics would be if she were a real woman. The text has been rewritten slightly to reflect this.--Ianmacm 13:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Barbie's body was replaced by a completely new one, from top to bottom. Olivix 19:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Careers
We should have a list of all Barbie's jobs.. For example, her first job was as a fashion model. Lil Flip246 00:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
This is catered for at Barbie's careers--Ianmacm 15:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Text edit
Some of the material from the timeline has been moved to the main text as suggested. The timeline is not ideal but it does contain some useful information.--Ianmacm 15:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Ideally the timeline should be axed altogether, although there is some information in it that could be moved to the main part of the text. I'll look at this when more time is available.--Ianmacm 17:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The timeline has been axed, with only a small amount of the information from it making its way into the main text. The main purpose of the current text cleanup has been to remove excessive lists and non-notable material. If everyone comes along and adds their favourite Barbie fact, the page will soon become too long and lacking in overall structure. The Barbie page has been prone to this problem in the past. The page is also the regular target of vandalism, so there is likely to be plenty of work needed to keep the page looking good.--Ianmacm 13:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The timeline has been removed after it was put back again. Rather than get into an edit war on this, it would be better to find some external links containing this information and put them at the bottom of the page.--Ianmacm 07:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Vandalism
It would be a pity to have to semi-protect this page, but at the moment it is rarely up for 24 hours without users (usually unregistered) adding nonsense or blanking the page. If the current rate of disruption continues, semi-protection is an option that may need to be looked at. The Bratz page was semi-protected a while ago for the same reason.--Ianmacm 07:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Although, I don't like the doll, it's a good idea to semi-protect the article, because the anonymous users use the article to write their wraths about the Barbie doll and destroying the article. About semi-protecting the Bratz page is that I wanted to semi-protect it, however somehow the protection didn't work. It was because that an unregistered user added the list of the 2006 collections, during the time, he or she destroys the Bratz's History and the Media section. The collections list appear at this article. It would be good to semi-protect the Bratz article, too, because the other unregistered users write different kinds of nonsenses, like they say, Bratz suggests homosexuality, they think they're prostitutes, etc. The same things as they think about the Barbie dolls, too, I think. My complaints about the negative thoughts about the Bratz by the way is here. 86.101.211.226 19:23 CET, 3 November 2006
I agree that this article should be semi-protected. I have tried to remove incorrect information and vandalism many many times in the past, only to return later and see that the same sorts of things have been added back in. This does a great disservice to people who are looking to this article for factual information. It's always littered with POV, agenda-base comments and incorrect assumptions. Olivix 19:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
December 2005's Study
By the way, can we write to the article about a study, which says little British girls brutally destroy Barbie dolls. The study's source is here. Any thoughts? 86.101.211.226 19:23 CET, 3 November 2006
This is also covered on the BBC website at [3]. I'll look at putting it into the article.--Ianmacm 19:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
This has now been added. It was a good suggestion, and appropriate since Barbie's Wikipedia article also attracts a large amount of vandalism and nonsense edits.--Ianmacm 16:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Barbie and the color tier system
The edit to the article which added this link [4] seems to be bordering on linkspam as it is too commercial. I have left it in for the time being because it contains a picture of the 1959 Barbie in her zebra striped swimsuit, which due to copyright reasons is not featured in the article. Eagle-eyed readers of [5] may notice that the text is substantially borrowed from the Wikipedia article Barbie.--Ianmacm 20:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- I see the section is gone but the link remains. Perhaps it should be accompanied by text similar to the following: "The production run of more recent Barbies is tied to a color-coded "tier" system of collectibility.[6] However, other factors such as controversy and recalls may also affect a particular doll's market value." That would distinguish the subject of dolls issued as collectibles from the subject of collecting vintage ones. (If that second sentence caveat is included, it needs a citation, perhaps to something about the tattoo and piercing controversies of several years back.) Also, it might be nice to mention in passing the different "eras" identified in Barbie collecting (vintage, mod, etc.) Karen | Talk | contribs 21:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Previous edits of the article Barbie have included long lists of the collector's editions which were not very interesting to the general reader and against good Wikipedia style. I removed the text about the colour coding system because I did not want the article to read too much like a promo for Mattel, and because the info about the colour coding system did not seem to meet the threshold of notability required for the article. There is some scope for expanding the "collecting" section because it is quite short, but I'm not sure if the colour coding system is the best way to go. Most of the really collectible Barbies come from the early years, and when the dolls are sold as collectible today it is largely as part of Mattel's marketing strategy. At the time that Barbie was launched in 1959, nobody realised that the doll would become so famous, and this is why the early dolls are now so sought after. There is also an an enormous range of ethnic Barbies, Barbie and Ken as Lily and Herman Munster (see this here: [7]) etc etc. I am a bit wary of starting anything that may lead to a list, as this can soon spiral out of control in a Wikipedia article. There are simply too many Barbie collector's editions to list them all, and the colour coding scheme is only one of the ways in which the dolls are marketed. Nevertheless, I will take your comments on board and look at ways of expanding the collecting section while keeping it reasonably brief and without lists.--Ianmacm 23:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I agree completely. It should be possible to give a very brief overview of subject of Barbie collecting (age and rarity vs. marketing strategy, areas of specialization, etc.) without discussing specific ranges of dolls. A few sentences should suffice to give the reader a general idea of the field without getting bogged down in details. Karen | Talk | contribs 23:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, I didn't realize how much of a marketing opp it is for Mattel, I was thinking the site just needed more collector info. I agree on the fact that the first Barbies made are the actual collector dolls compared to the new color tier that Mattel has put out. pinktuliptah | Talk 08:01, 16, November 2006
I have expanded the section on Barbie collecting while maintaining a distinction between the vintage dolls and the modern collector's editions. The "Color Tier" system was devised by Mattel in 2004 so it is a relatively recent idea, and it needs to be distinguished from the market for vintage Barbie dolls which are genuinely rare compared to some of the collector's editions. The way in which the Barbie article is written is designed to give an overview of the various topics with relevant external links, and this prevents the article from becoming too long which has been a problem in the past.--Ianmacm 20:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Share a Smile Becky
This was rv'ed from the article on 22 November 2006, largely for reasons of keeping the article's length down:
- In May 1997 Mattel introduced Share a Smile Becky a doll in a hot pink wheelchair. Unfortuantely, the Barbie Dream House was not hadicapped accessible. Becky couldn't fit through the door or in the elevator.[8]
As mentioned previously, the current version of the article is trying to avoid long lists, but the above information may be put back if other users regard it as important enough to be in the main article. --Ianmacm 19:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I did a copyedit on this, but was sidetracked before posting it, by which time you had reverted. It seems at least vaguely notable, and at least it's sourced, so I'll put it back in for now. But if someone takes it out a second time I won't gripe about it. Karen | Talk | contribs 19:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that Share a Smile Becky should get a mention, because the story received a good deal of media coverage at the time, and it highlighted the problems faced by people in wheelchairs. To be fair to Mattel, the article at [9] points out that the design of the Dream House had been around for several years before Share a Smile Becky arrived on the scene. It is also worth noting that 1997 was the all-time vintage year for Barbie controversies, with Aqua's Barbie Birl, the Nissan commercial and Oreo Fun Barbie all occurring in 1997.--Ianmacm 20:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
