Talk:Balti (food)

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[edit] RE: The origin of the word

It is already established that Balti can be translated as bucket in Hindi. There is no disputing the origin of the Hindi word balti/balty. I think it is pretty presumptuous to assume that because this is generally referred to as Indian food - that there is any connection to the Hindi language. Most of the owners of balti houses in Birminham are Karhmiri in origin.

Read the balti cookbook by Pat Chapman - A man who has done more for the curry scene in the UK than anyone, you will find he has researched a lot more into it, than just assuming because there is a word in a phrase book which sounds like it then it must be right.

Kashmir is joined right on to the Baltistan area, and baltistan is joined onto china which is where the cast iron cooking came from.

Chris303 10:38, 01 June 2008 (GMT)

[edit] Etymology

I suggest that the "bowl Tea" explanation is merely an urban legend derived from a source not understanding the meaning of Balti as a bucket, equally so the Baltistan connection is suspect 01:04, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the "bowl Tea" suggestion is merely urban legend.
However, I have encountered references to the region of Baltistan before. Apparently, they often use the Balti (as in the pot) in their cookery and so I beleive that was the motivation for naming the dish in this way, much in the same way that other "British" curries are named after regions of the Indian Subcontinent.
As for the fouth suggestion regarding a "particularly hairless Indian chef"... this is clearly urban legend, and perhaps not appropriate for the article. If there are no major objections, I would like to remove this section.
Ryecatcher 16:20, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Balderdash and Piffle

In a programme of this name on BBC2 on 16 April 2006 a claim was made that a restaurant in Newcastle was serving baltis in 1982. This may well be the case, but not even the Oxford English Dictionary disputes that the balti, nevertheless, originated in Birmingham. This is their new, revised entry for the word:

Entry revised for OED Online balti, n.2 DRAFT REVISION Apr. 2006

Cookery. Also with capital initial. [Origin uncertain and disputed. The word was first used in connection with restaurants chiefly in the area of Birmingham, England, in the early 1980s (cf. quot. 1982; one source claims that that first Balti house opened in 1977, but no printed evidence for this has been found). It is unclear whether there is any antecedent in languages of northern India, Pakistan, or Kashmir; it is not recorded among the many borrowings from these languages in R. J. Baumgartner Eng. Lang. Pakistan (1993). It is widely suggested that the word is derived < Hindi bl pail, bucket (perh. ult. < Portuguese balde), referring to the small, two-handled pan used in balti houses (Urdu karahi), but as there is no evidence that the Hindi word was used for vessels of this kind, this is probably a folk etymology. Derivation from Panjabi b deep brass dish (cf. Hindi b, Bengali b) has also been suggested; the intrusion of an -l- would be difficult to explain phonologically, but might have arisen in an English linguistic context from an error in transliteration, from misinterpretation of the retroflex t as -lt-, or by confusion with Hindi bl (see above). It has also been suggested that the word has some connection with Baltistan (see BALTI a. and n.1). The cuisine is found throughout Pakistan and north-western India, but with the notable exception of Baltistan, which has a subsistence economy (although sharing of food from a communal pot, or bucket, is app. a feature of Balti culture). The first balti houses may have been so named because of their simple, bring-and-share style, or because an early proprietor of such a restaurant was a Balti from Pakistani Kashmir. The predominant British pronunciation with back vowel is perh. after BALTIC a. and n.]

I. Simple uses.

1. A style of cooking influenced by the cuisine of northern Pakistan, comprising highly spiced dishes usually served in wide, round-bottomed, metal pans and accompanied by nan bread. Also: food or a dish in this style.

1982 Heathan (Balsall Heath, Birmingham) July 8/1 (advt.) Specialists in kebab, tikah, balti meats tandoori chicken and all kinds of curry. 1984 Curry Mag. Winter 29/1 Can anyone tell me what Balti is?.. Some unusual dishes on the menu are Curried Quail, Balti chicken or meat. 1990 Independent (Nexis) 24 Feb. 32 A lot of police..got to know about ‘going for a balti’ while training in Birmingham. 1993 Times 26 June (Mag.) 35/2 I've eaten some passable, if crude, South American stuff and supped off the true Brum vernacular, which is the Kashmiri balti—only in this city do you get a table laid with a metre-long bread. 2000 Evening Post (Bristol) (Electronic ed.) 4 Nov., Not that students have to eat curry before a monster drinking session. They can, of course, grab a balti during and after, all equally satisfying.

As can be seen from the above, Birmingham has a print reference (The Heathan, a local newspaper) equally as old as the anomalous one from Newcastle (1982), and the OED have chosen to ignore the Newcastle one. Perhaps, like the early reference for mushy peas from Tenby (same episode), they were unable to verify it, as it was simply a printed menu. In any case, the question is acedemic, because even the OED admit that the term was coined in 1977 in Birmingham. The source for this is Adil's Restaurant - the people who actually invented it - see here [1]. For all I know, there may well have been an isolated balti house in Newcastle in 1982 - the Asian community have extended families all over the country - but in 1982 there were already dozens in Birmingham, where the concept had already been in existence for half a decade. TharkunColl 18:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is balti?

This article explains how balti is served, how it is eaten, where the word came from... but not what it actually is! What are the ingredients? How is it made? How is it distinguished from other curry dishes?

Someone please add some information. Mtford 22:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


I agree, a better description of the food itself is desperately needed. I am actually from Birmingham and eat baltis regularly, but even I fail to see what the difference is between a balti and just any old curry. I always thought balti referred speciically to the metal dish in which it is both cooked and served. 84.69.0.130 23:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


I'm from Birmingham too. A balti is called such purely because it is cooked (and served) in a balti dish. They tend to be milder than a "curry" - although curry in itself is a misnomer as it comes from a word meaning sauce and is purely a generic term to describe a range of food. A Balti is a curry, but a curry isn't necessarily a balti. The Mayor 13:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I've always understood that 'Balti' is just the latest substitute word for curry, largely used for fashion or marketing reasons. Back in the early 80's 'curry' was just 'curry' and was largely what we'd now refer to as 'keema madras'. Essentially minced lamb with paprika, ground corriander, cumin, chilli and garam masala in it. At some point in the mid 80's 'curry houses' started to use a lot more chicken and fresh herbs, and the 'tandoori house' was born. But tandoori has fallen out of favour as a substitute word for 'curry' and 'balti' has become fashionable. Even now though balti is falling out of favour and is being replaced with 'karahi' or 'kashmiri'. Essentially balti is chicken marinaded and then fried in a sauce made as follows, then topped with fresh corriander and tomatoes - Fry chopped onions, garlic and chillies in (A LOT OF!) vegetable oil, then add spice mix (see below), and pasata and continue cooking. after 20 minutes of simmering, blend the mixture into a sauce. Spice mix is (proportions differ), ground cumin seeds (high proportion), ground corriander seeds, ground cardomom seeds, turmeric, chilli powder and a tiny bit of garam masala. Fried for a few seconds in very hot oil to activate the flavour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.152.76.137 (talk) 12:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
And then serve in a small wok-type thing known as a balti dish. It's not a balti if it doesn't come in one of them, it's just a plain old curry. TharkunColl (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dead link

The link in the references section, http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/baltitriangle.bcc, gives a 404... anyone know the correct address?

The full link is http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=23121&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=260 --Unre4LITY 15:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balti Food

"Most balti houses are run by Pakistanis. This spicy dish was introduced to the city by its large Kashmiri population (of Pakistan). It's a way of cooking that started in the city in the 1980s." [2] (Sources included, please have a look)

Unre4L 03:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)