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Contents 1 Groupism i.e., Caste origin 2 Subdivision origin 3 Sri Krishna Devaraya 4 THANJAVUR,MADURAI AND VIJAYANAGAR KINGS WERE BALIJA NAIDUS (KAPUS/TELAGAS)AND WERE INTER RELATED

[edit] Groupism i.e., Caste origin

The origin of groupism i.e., caste seems to have started with people trying to refer to themselves as one group. There was no divisions and sub divisions until different people started competing for the same resources and had to organize themselves into groups to improve their chances in competing.

Lathead 12:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subdivision origin

Another reason for groupism came from the profession followed by the differnt groups. As people changed professions, they also had to change names to reflect those professions. However they needed to differentiate themselves from people who were already using those professional names. So as people took up farming they had to call themselves Vellala. However since other groups were using Vellala as title, different groups with additional names were created. Thus were created the various groups of Vellala.

Lathead 9:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sri Krishna Devaraya

Krishnadevaraya's caste is a matter of controversy. According to many historians he was a Yadava. As for Sammeta and Metla surnames, they exist among Kammas too. Can we infer that he belonged to Kamma caste? Pemmasani nayaks who ruled Gandikota were Kammas. Thimma Nayudu and Ramalinga Naidu were famous commanders of Vijayanagar kings.

• Krishna Deva Raya called himself a Kshatriya of Yaduvanshi descent. The people that write these kapu articles keep saying that McKenzie manuscripts mention that he is a balija, the fact is these manuscripts only say that after the first dynasty all subsequent dynasties were telugu communities. As far as his lineage he is clearly said to have been born of the kings second wife or a mistress. His son-in-laws are chandravansi kshatriyas, specifically of the modern day raju community and their gotra is atreya. The raja of anegundi is the legal heir and direct descendant of aliya rama raya. they also claim spiritual descent from krishna deva raya as his line died off with him. This family gives it's caste as Raju. They are telugu speaking community settled in the former capital. They marry with Raju's from Andhra. Where these guys get the justification to say that they are kota balijas is beyond me. The very same author that keeps insisting on this point even says there is absolutely no conculsive proof to this claim, that it is just a theory they have based on what mackenzie hypothesised, but they will not here the truth from living descendants if this dynasty. One thing to keep in mind, kings back then had multiple wives, Krishna deva raya is in the guiness book of world records for having one of the largest harems of all time. with all due respect, the thurston article does clearly state that who ever was thrown out of other castes or were a product of a mixed caste were accepted into the kapu, balija etc. castes. Why else would you have over a hundred different gotras, some brahminical, some just a name of an occupation. Kapu was a generic term for farmer, so if a brahman etc. became a farmer he would be called a kapu, so that is probably why you have such a wide variety of people and customs in the kapu community. This is not meant to be taken insultingly, just an academic point is being made--Historyfreak69 (talk) 18:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Here are the surnames with the gotrams of kapu's, compare them with the inscriptions state were the gotrams and surnames of the ruling clans:

• Surname:-------Kapu Gotra:-------Ruler gotras:
• Chodagam-------Pamidipandla
• Chodisetty-----Paidipala--------all telugu chodas were kasyapa and used chodaraju as thier surname
• Chodisetty-----Godavari
• Dalavayi-------Thammineni-------Atreya
• Kathari--------Pydipala---------Atreya
• Sammeta-------Varalakshmi----Atreya

Unless there are was a mistake, there is no correlation between kapu/balija surnames and gotras and the ruling clans mentioned. So where is the evidence?--Historyfreak69 (talk) 18:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] THANJAVUR,MADURAI AND VIJAYANAGAR KINGS WERE BALIJA NAIDUS (KAPUS/TELAGAS)AND WERE INTER RELATED

If Kapu is generic term, so be it. So is the term Raju! Many castes used suffix Raju and were called Kshatriyas when they ruled the people. Lot of people belonging to various castes in this day and age still use suffix "Raju" and usage of it does not denote, necessarily one particular caste. Coming to term Kapu, Kapu caste is the largest caste in the state of Andhra Pradesh, amounting to about one fourth of the state's population. There are about 45 lakhs of Kapus (Balijas/Telagas) in Karnataka state only. There is a vast number of Kapu population spread over Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Orissa, Maharashtra, Chattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh and other parts of India. No wonder, there might be some differences in the customs given the vastness of the Kapu community and the diverse places where they are living in. It might not be so with a small community such as Kshatriya as opposed to most populous Kapu community.

There are plenty of references that can be given to say that Madurai and Thanjavur kings were Balija Naidus (Kapus/Telagas). It is well known that Vijayanagar kings shared authority locally with Balija Nayaks and entered matrimonial alliances with them. According to Peter N. Sterns in "The Encyclopedia Of World History" the Balija-merchant warriors were proud of their Sudra status ,in a world previously dominated by a classical Sanskritic Varna scheme that insisted that kings had to be Kshatriya.

According to Edgar Thurston and Rangachari in "Castes And Tribes Of Southern India" the Balija caste has two sub-divisions, Desa (or Kota, a fort) and Peta (street)and the first of these include Balija (Nayak) kings of Madura, Thanjore and Vijayanagar, or Provincial governors in those kingdoms. It was mentioned in the same volume that Sevappa Naidu (Thanjavur king) had married Murthiammal, sister-in-law of Achyutha Devarayalu of Narapathi Samsthanam of Vijayanagar. It was also mentioned that Madurai king Thirumala Naidu had married one of the daughters of Thanjavur king Sevappa Naidu's family. As per Vijayakumari and Sepuri Bhaskar in "Social Changes among Balijas" emperor Sreekrishnadevarayalu belonged to Kapu caste. One can infer that since he belonged to Kapu caste, Emperor Achyutha devarayalu (half -brother of emperor Sreekrishna Devarayalu) celebrated the marriage of his own sister-in-law Murthiammal with Thanjavur kapu (Balija/Telaga) king Alluri Sevappa Naidu. According to Paula Richman in "Questioning Ramayana: A South Asian Tradition", Thanjavur king Raghunatha Nayudu was Balija. This proves that the predecessor of Raghunatha Naidu, and the founder of Thanjavur dynasty Sevappa Naidu was Balija Naidu. According to Konduri Sarojini Devi in "Religion in Vijayanagara Empire” as per 'Karnata Kotikam kings', emperor Achyuthadevarayalu had crowned Viswanatha Nayudu of the Garikepati family of Balija caste as the king of Pandya country. I believe that the above information would help the reader to know about the Kapu(Balija/Telaga )connection with Madurai, Thanjavur and Vijayanagar kingdoms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.52.9 (talk) 05:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Balija simply meant a trader. Even a milkman selling milk could be a trader. Several gollas were conferred the nayaka title. When gollas were not fighting, they managed cows and cowpens, sold milk and became part of the trading groups. Yadava naidus are a branch of balija naidus. Nobody gives a golla man herding cows a damn, but when it comes to asserting caste, some history freaks wants them to be rajus. There are also claims that balijas are rishivanshi kshatriyas. Maybe they were born to rishis brahmin men and kapu women, but followed matrilineal gothra system. Balija gothras such as aavula, pydipala pagadipala, etc are typically associated with cows, they were mere cow herds who rose to establish fiefdoms maybe to protect their dharma against those who ate cow meat. There are also claims that rajus are raja-puthras of ancient kapu kings. Titles such as rajus and gothras could also be assumed after a man has enough land and wealth. History can be distorted in many ways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.10 (talk) 01:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)