Talk:Baldwin Street, Dunedin

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[edit] Photos

  • How about we use a different photo? I think it better depicts the steepness of the street. I might be biased though, because I took that photo myself. Or should we maybe include both photos? Please do give your comments. If no one comments in two weeks, I will do the replacement (or addition). --Yogi de 19:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I think that the two photos are basically the same, just different angles of holding the camera. The current photo, however doesn't have a hedge blocking the view of the house.
Whoops, mjm1964 (first time edited a talk page).
  • I changed the indentation of your comment. Use four tildes (~) to sign your article with your name and a timestamp. Regarding the photo: I think the hedge helps making the photo look more extreme, and determining where "up" is. Still, I agree the difference is not that big. --Yogi de 22:23, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While it is an interesting photo, it's kind of confusing to tell how steep the street is. The one on the current page is much less confusing, and you can see straight away the street is very steep. RAINERtalk 10:54, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged death of Ana Louise North

A google search for Ana Louise North Dunedin didn't bring up any decent results (e.g. respected news pages), only two somewhat obscure lists of alleged accidents. I believe this to be Urban Legend, unless someone comes up with better evidence. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to spread urban legends. If no evidence comes up, I will remove the passage from the article. -- Yogi de 00:57, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

While I agree with the sentiment mostly and I'm strongly supportive of the need for referencing, and this is a bit irrelevant now that a reference has been found, even without a reference, IMHO this should have remained even if one did not come up (but with a citation needed in the text). Given that this was a fairly recent event it is still fresh on the memories of many New Zealanders and given the size of New Zealand it was widely reported in reputable local media. I suspect asking on the Project NZ would have obtained widespread consensus that the event did happen and was reported in reputable local media. Although this does not remove the need for a citation, given we are talking about an factual event (rather then an disputed opinion or quote) IMHO it would have been enough to leave it in until a citation could be found. Nil Einne 03:35, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I concur, was widely reported and talked about her in NZ. Not folklore at all. Sad though that it isn't. Students where I lived in Auckland used to do the same with Whitaker Place (a very steep street, though not quite as steep as Baldwin) Mathmo Talk 08:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice about having a signature. Here is a link to a newspapers website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,445106,00.html Mjm1964 02:36, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] High Street, White Rock, British Columbia

I would not be suprised if this surpasses the steepness of Baldwin Street. It goes up the side of a steep ravine and must be at least 30% gradient. It is barely walkable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.81.47.153 (talk • contribs) .

Looking at this map, High St does look fairly steep (although apparently not in the same league as Baldwin St), gaining about 100 ft of elevation in a horizontal distance of roughly 500 ft, for a gradient of 1:5 or 11°. (High St is the street running from the coast up towards the W in White Rock on this map; see also Google Maps.) No doubt it's steeper than this in parts. Does anyone have any better information? -- Avenue 09:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Other Streets in British Columbia (Greater Vancouver Regional District)

Gatensbury St and Thermal Drive in Port Moody, BC also have gradients that seem to be steeper than this, though not for the entire length of each street. Also, a portion of Queens Ave in New Westminster, BC would appear to be nearly 40% gradient (though, once again, not for the entire length of the road).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.121.68.93 (talk • contribs).

Do you have any sources? A quick google doesn't seem to reveal much information on these streets? --Limegreen 22:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
To be fair, Baldwin Street isn't the same steepness over most of it either. The steepest part may be around 30% of the total length? MadMaxDog 08:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
While overall the street is pretty steep, I believe that the quote gradient is for an even shorter distance. I have some idea of this, having once driven a car with a trailer up there (don't ask). Not only did I not make it up, but the car in gear, engine off, and handbrake on was not enough to hold us(!!) As for safely turning around with a trailer on that sort of grade on a narrow street. I digress slightly. I had a look on googlemaps at those streets, and they seem a bit 'major' to be as absurdly steep as Baldwin. I could be wrong, but the aerial perspective doesn't make them look dysfunctionally steep. --Limegreen 10:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canton Street, Pittsburgh, PA

According to this news story, Canton Street in the neighborhood of Beechview has a grade of 37%, even steeper than Baldwin Street.

It does seem like it might be steeper, but the article calls it a "byway" and a "pathway". Baldwin St is a very real "street". It has upward of 50 houses, with continuous housing through the steepest stretch. Also, as an effective dead-end, it's not just a 2 way street, but the street that its residents use daily. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Limegreen (talk • contribs) .
The Post-Gazette article also says that just two families live on the steep portion, which bolsters Limegreen's argument. But perhaps it's worth mentioning in our article, with some discussion of what is meant by a "street". Regarding the name, the article calls it Canton Street in one place, but Canton Avenue in another. Google Maps thinks it's Canton Avenue.[1]. -- Avenue 03:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's Canton Avenue. The photo caption is wrong. I think they were calling it a 'byway' just as artistic license. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.1.1.33 (talk • contribs) .

It isn't entirely clear that folks drive on the steep part of the street, even in the summer:
  • The bottom half is so steep, you're not supposed to drive down it any time of the year,...
But elsewhere it implies that residents do use it in the summer.
  • The two families who live on the sheer stretch know to park down on Coast when it snows and walk up the steps that are Canton's sidewalk.
Maybe we should have an article like List of steepest streets to evaluate these claims. -Will Beback 20:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm obivously chiming in on this a little late, but as a Pittsburgh resident and cyclist, I can assure you that Canton Avenue is most definitely a real street, and it's almost as long as Baldwin Street (this article says Baldwin is 200m). There are more than 2 houses on it, as well, although perhaps only 2 use it as their mailing address. Every year in Pittsburgh there is the "dirty dozen" bike race up Pittsburgh's 13 (a baker's dozen) steepest hills, including Canton. So, while no action seems to have been taken after this discussion, looking at the history of the article, I'm going to add a note about Canton Ave wit a link to the PG article. catParade 07:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Manizales Colombia

There are much stepper streets in Manizales, Caldas, Colombia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.24.53.61 (talk • contribs) .

Can you provide some details? -- Avenue 23:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree, there are way too much stepper streets in Manizales. This street is flat compared to someones in Manizales, if someone would give me some details about taking the measure, i'd take the photographs and the measures of about 3 streets . Thanks
To take an official measure, you'd need a surveyor. However, you could make yourself a primitive astrolabe, which would give you a start. Effectively, you need to take square piece of cardboard and attach a plumb-bob to it (I've used a washer on a piece of string. Then you add angles to it. Eventually, you'd place it on the surface of the street and measure the angle. It's no where near an official measure, but it would be a good start.--Limegreen 21:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
And original research in the truest sense of the word ;-) Better write some referenced articles about those streets if you can. MadMaxDog 07:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, MadMaxDog is right. While taking measurements would be interesting, the results would be unusable on Wikipedia. See WP:NOR. (PS: The device you want is called an "inclinometer". Fancy compasses have htem built in.) ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I should gently clarify that I was suggesting Original Research not for inclusion here, but because I think that people often think, oh 30 degrees is not very steep (when in fact, if you're standing on it, it seems rather steeper). It would be curious to know if there actually are steeper streets than Baldwin St, but frankly, you'd think they'd measure them. Plus, having driven up Baldwin, I'm not sure that a steeper street would be very functional as one.--Limegreen 01:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I used to live near one of the top ten steepest streets. More than once I saw debris at the bottom of the hill that had apparently fallen out of trucks, etc. That particular street went up to the crest of a narrow ridge so that you had to enter an intersection that couldn't be seen because of the hood of your vehicle. And then down the other side, almost as steep. I think whoever had drawn the platt map of the area hadn't bothered to check the topography - several streets are on the map that were too steep to pave, much less drive on, and have been turned into terraced gardens by the neighborhood. So yes, a 35% grade is very steep. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I once measured (during my work) a street here in NZ that was so steep, the spirit level slid down the hill when we let it go ;-) No, they are not too practical. Especially in Dunedin, where it does snow sometimes! MadMaxDog 04:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date formatting

MadMaxDog: Look, I tried to be helpful here. I added the reference to Charles Kettle, after noting the connection to Baldwin Street in his article (which I also edited). While at it, I noted that this article is not formatted according to wikipedia guidelines when it comes to dates, so I took care of that while at it. Now you keep putting links to years, such as 2002, which is plain non-sensical, and adding the day of the week for newspaper articles, which is totally extraneous info, almost never seen on any other wiki articles. OK, whatever, dude. Turgidson 13:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Did I step on your toes or what is the problem? I certainly did not delete your Charles Kettle link, I in fact found it quite sensible. The 2002 link was returned when I reverted to keep the weekdays (I usually delete these links as well). So delete it if you like. As for the weekdays, it may not be of great use, but again, why remove info thats perfectly correct and bothers no one. It may not be high-value info, but it is info, not only data. MadMaxDog 13:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the year/decade links. -- Avenue 14:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I won't revert it (getting tired of this little dispute as well) but can someone tell me the reasoning why a 1990s link is bad too? I always thought they made more sense that a simple year link, as they are actual articles, not just a long list. MadMaxDog 22:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Steepest?

I think I've seen much steeper streets in my life, in cities built around mountains or hills. Of course, most of the streets which are really steep are very short, so probably are less impressive than this one.. Perhaps it's a useless comment, but I don't think I'm the only person who doubts this claim. When a street is too steep to walk easily on, it usually just has a stairway in place of a normal sidewalk.. I'd like to have more meaningful claims about this, but I don't think it's easy to go around measuring the angle of random streets (without appropiate equipment or training). user:guruclef

This is a city built around mountains and hills. The steepest section of this street is also quite short. The pictures make it look a lot less steep than it seems when you're on it. I'm not quite sure I get your point about the stairway, but Baldwin is just one of many streets in Dunedin with stairs for a footpath(sidewalk). --Limegreen 21:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [Anon comment]

There's a steeper street than this in bolton Point. Insignificant article. 203.49.205.213 14:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, can't be all that impressive, your street, if such a drive-by snubbing is all it makes you do. References buddy. Without it, you are just a nobody spouting nothings. And this article would not be insignificant if there were 50 Streets in the world stepper than this one. MadMaxDog 07:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)