Talk:Backstreet Boys discography

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[edit] Sales

The sales data on this page are positively incorrect and unresourced. Here are the ones found via the net:

http://www.mp3.com/news/stories/5070.html&ref_id=170877&ref_type_id=1 Worldwide: 87m Never Gone: 2m

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&ean=12414177926 Backstreet Boys: 13m

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/1468141.stm Back n Blue: 6m

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Backstreet-Boys-Has-Been-Certified-Platinum-6824.shtml Never Gone: 3m

http://arts.enotes.com/contemporary-musicians/backstreet-boys-biography Backstreet Boys: 11m

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1477802/bio Worldwide: 80m

http://www.livedaily.com/news/1862.html Millenium: 30m

http://www.fyiottawa.com/cgi-bin/niveau2.cgi?s=arts&p=42154.html&a=1 Back n Blue: 14m

http://www.theage.com.au/news/music/backstreets-back-alright/2005/09/05/1125772450951.html Worldwide: 73m

http://special.time.net.my/time4u/music/article.cfm?ID=159 Worldwide: 73m

http://mal_pal_69.tripod.com/id17.htm Millenium: 30m

http://backstreetboysblog.donyell.net/?m=200508 Never Gone: 3m 60.234.242.196 09:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2005.htm - Never Gone #25 best selling album of 2005 - 2.2m 60.234.242.196 20:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.newmusicfriday.com/?nmf=20050513 - total sales of 75m, but this is before Greatest Hits and Never Gone. Therefore adding these, this comes to 84m. All this data is saying the same thing, total worldwide sales of approx. 85m. There is no (non clone) site that gives a higher figure. 60.234.242.196 09:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys (US) self titled Album. This was released ONLY in the USA, and was credited 14 x Platinum, so how (how!) can anyone claim it sold 25m. The album Backstreet Boys Back was released internationally excluding the USA, and only went 2 x platinum in the UK, so how (how!) can anyone claim it also sold 25m. All sites I have visited show one sales figure combining the totals (14m and looks like 11m internationally) to equate to 25m. So, either these can be counted together or separately, but NOT 25m each.60.234.242.196 09:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.bsb-brasil.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=39 is a clone of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Backstreet_Boys_awards You can check the history to see that Kmnmo inflated the sales figures on this, then once this site updated from wikipedia, then referenced it. This CANNOT be used 60.234.242.196 10:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.lyricsystem.com/backstreet-boys/ is a clone of the Backstreet Boys main wikipedia page, but is very old. This has since been cleaned up and the fictional figures have been removed. This CANNOT be used 60.234.242.196 10:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=901528#901528 is a forum where User Kmnmo used an existing forum page, increased the sales figures for BSB then referenced it back into wikipedia. Here is the correct forum: http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33707 . 60.234.242.196 21:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

http://www.popdirt.com/modules.php?name=News&file=com&sid=46037 is a forum, and zero referencing to where data came from. And if anyone bothers to actually read the comments are even research any of the figures, they are not even close to real sales. Anyone can put any figures they want on a forum, then we are expected to believe them? Wikipedia is about sourcing reliable, verifiable data. This is NOT such a case. This link cannot be used. 60.234.242.196 21:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Request for Comment: Backstreet Boys Sales Figures

This is a dispute about consistant editing of this page with unsourceds sales figures

Statements by editors previously involved in dispute
  • Consistant reversing of sales data that is referenced to references that are wiki clones.
  • Repetitive comments to Users talk page saying this cannot be used as a source and ignored.
  • Probable issue with communication with User as attempts by User to make comments is broken English.

146.171.254.66 20:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussions on sales figures ane research to user Micheal Nicks

[edit] Millennium Sales

You have noted that the 30 million figure is from 1999, and are making an assumption that as it is now 2007, they must have sold another 10 million, matching the reference you found. But this is an assumption, and these are not allowed on wikipedia. I have already mentioned that the link you have found which states 40 million is also non credible, when compared to all others. I will also attempt to show you that their sales have not been good over the past 6 years, and hope you will learn from this and stop re-editing on your beliefs. Millennium and BSB was a major hit in the USA, and it counted for 40% of global sales, so let us use the US market as an example: In December 1999 Millennium had sold 9.4 million [1]. By end of 2000, this was 11.7m [2]. By end of 2001, this was 12.0 million [3], and they were awarded 13 x Platinum even though they sold only 12 million. By end of 2003 it was 12.06 million [4]. By the end of 2006 it was 12.1 million [5]. Therefore in their biggest market they have sold only 0.4 million in the past 6 years. In the past 5 years after their last creditation in 2001 they have sold only 0.1 million. I am hoping that you can now see that the data makes it totally impossible for another 10 million to be sold, thus 30m is the best figure to use, and it is referenced so often by all sources. 60.234.242.196 10:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

wrong link posted. 2003 sales here: [6] 60.234.242.196 09:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia policy - Millennium Sales

Part of the wikipedia policy on ensuring accurate dat, is for verifiable sources to be used, and that concensus is also used. Therefore if all sites say one fact, and another source goes against said concensus, then it is not considered a verifiable resource. Here is from the internet - BBC News [7] 20 million worldwide (21 January 2000), AJ News [8] 30 million, Geocities [9] 30 million, allpop.com (Toronto Sun) [10] 30 million, Interlink Media [11] 40 million, Entertainment Wire [12] 28 million, Backstreet Net [13] 21 MILLION, Amazon.com [14] 20 million, BK [15] 22 million. The concensus is therefore that it has sold 20 - 30 million worldwide 60.234.242.196 23:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

  • totally agree with this sales are 20-30 MILLION (i would say 24 million approximately but anyway......)

THE 40 MILLION CLAIM IS CRAZYYY!!!!

--85.75.116.184 (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

added the 'dubious' tag - as all links state below given reference. I can add that also on the United World Chart list.[1] that it is #55 on the list, amoungst albums that have sold far less than 30 million ... An alternative listing [2] has it as largest selling album of 1999 with 23 million sold. 60.234.242.196 (talk) 02:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Black & Blue sales

Once again, the data is incorrect. You have referenced 3 sites that are quoting the same source, and as said before, these are forums where the data is disputed. Therefore before changing again, please actually reseach. As I have shown, 30 million is a credible figure for Millennium. Although some say this figure is also inflated. So, let us look at sales figures compared to Millenium. In the USA - the biggest market, Black & Blue sold only 60% of the sales for Millennium [16]. In the 2nd biggest market of the UK, Black & Blue sold only 100,000 copies [17]. This is 30% of what Millenium achieved [18]. Look at Germany, another stronghold for BSB, Millenium sold 200,000 under Roughtrade label, and 300,000 under Zomba label [19], whereas Black and Blue sold 200,000 only [20] = 40%. Another one - Australia. Millennium sold 210,000 whereas Black and Blue sold 70,000 [21]. Again, 30%. You can see that sales for Black & Blue would be closer to 50% of Millennium NOT 80% as your figure of 24 million suggests. I have therefore reverted it. 60.234.242.196 10:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I refer you to the 2001 IFPI Recording Association for 2001 [22]. On page 5 it states that Black & Blue was the 10th biggest chart topping album of the year. If you research the sales for an album that was similar i.e. Madonna's - Music. This sold 13m worldwide (refer links to this on the Madonna Discography discussion page), Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication has sold 15m to date. [23], Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP, which did far better than Black and Blue, sold 19m [24] to date. This once again is showing that Black and Blue sales 'are likely' to be in the same vicinity, and NOT 24m. 60.234.242.196 22:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Now I totally agree here!! black and blue was a hit ok but it has sold way less than 24 million. its actual sales are less than 13 million if you add certifications... i mean come on people BE LOGIC. these sales are totaly inflated! if u want put its sales to 15 million but i cant accept that it has sold 25 million. If blackand blue has sold 25 million the mj's thriller has sold 500 million!!! if we inflate sales so much then we destroy wikipedia pages since u destroy their purpose, to inform people!

--Mysterious Spy 14:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Your research is well made; however, that does not compensate for the fact that your whole claim is basically speculation and what is "likely." We can't accept that. I also disagree that the sources given are disputed - they actually quote official sales data and some are confirmed by the official website and members of the band. Aran|heru|nar 05:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] discussion from talkpage

Refer Best-selling albums in the United States since Nielsen SoundScan tracking began. Millennium (Backstreet Boys album) has sold 0.12 million in past 5 years in BSB's biggest market. Backstreet Boys (US album) has sold 0.8 million in the same period. So you are wanting everyone to believe that their average selling album has sold an additional 9 million in the same period , and without supply evidence. 60.234.242.196 01:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Never Gone sales

the following was referenced as a source: *Worldwide Sales: 13 million+[3] This cannot be used for the following reasons. Firstly, it is a discussion group, not a verifiable source. Secondly, even if you read the discussions, you find that the person who made the claim did so by reading it on answers.com, which is a clone of wikipedia, and is also not allowed. Therefore reversing this. 60.234.242.196 21:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OMG WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!???

These sales are completely false.

  • Backstreet boys cannot has sold more than 6 million (only gold in the UK(100.000) no release in the US. AND IM SAYING TOO MUCH ( pesonally i believe that this album has sold WAY LESS THAN 5 MILLIONS ABOUT 4 MILLIONS...!!!)
  • Backstreet boys '97 has sold about 12 millions (only US release)
  • Backstreet's Back has sold approximately 25 million (no US release so i would say that actual sales are below the 20 million mark but anyway...)
  • Millenium THIS ALBUM HAS NOT SOLD 40 MILLION IT HASNT EVEN SOLD 30 MILLION . i mean it went very well in the US (13xPlatinum) but it has kinda flopped in the UK (its 1xPlatinum certification is very low compared to Backstreets back 4xPlatinum certification there) its sales are less than 28 million (i would put its sales to 26 million) BY ADDING WORLD WIDE CERTIFICATIONS U GET 24 MILLION COPIES WORLDWIDE!!!! NO COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!put 30 millions if u want ! but 40 million is dangerously stupid!!!!!!!! people use your brains for gods sake!!!
  • Black and Blue first of all i thought that it had gone only 5 times platinum in the US! how did it suddently go 8xplatinum!?! WEIRD! ok only gold in the UK... sales are approximately 15 million (way less than the 25 million that i see here!!) i mean i remember people discussing weather this album should be in the 15 million section and you SUDDENTLY put it to the 25 million sectio??! i cannot understand you!!
  • The hits Chapter one ok weve got a platinum cert in the US and in the UK! people think logically. this album has approximately sold 6 million copies world-wide (the 10 million that u have put is CRAZY!!)
  • Never gone has flopped. i would put its sale to 2.5 millions but the 3 million is ok.

think about it how can their greatest hits (which have gone pletinum in us and uk) have sold 10 million while their "never gone" album which has gone exactly the same in the charts (platinum- gold in the us, uk respectively) has sold less than 3 million their greatest hits sales are way less than 5 million ... anyway

--Mysterious Spy 20:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

STOP INFLATING THE SALES OVER AND OVER AGAIN!! CANT U READ!!??

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

  • OK let me make this clear to all of you. In order to say that an album has shipped more than 35 millions or more we must be sure that the album has got diamond certifications in the US,CAN UK, EUROPE, GERMANY, FRANCE, JAPAN, AUSTARLIA and more others.the album took diamond certifications only in the US !!
  • Millenum has received 13 platinum awards in the US FOR SHIPPING 12+ millions there. in the rest of america it has sold an additional 1.5-2 million. In Europe the album has shipped approximately 3-4 million copies, in asia abou 1.5-2 millions. Therefore ACTUAL shipments are 18.5-24 millions worldwide. CAPITO!!? i wont accept any 40 million claim. even though the 30 million claim is also extreme and inflated i will accept it. The best thing to put is 26-28 millions.

thx and i hope that this issue is solved already!!

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 19:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Please remember that Backstreet Boys enjoyed much more success internationally than in the US, and more so in continental Europe than in the UK. Germany, Italy and Japan are three of their main markets, and they also had immense success in the Philippines, Taiwan and mainland China. You did not seem to have taken into account any of these markets.
Moreover, what you thought is relevant. Most of these numbers are taken from the music industry and are widely accepted - the Millennium sales count is affirmed by Brian Littrell himself. You seem to have measured the count simply by original research of a combination of certifications and hearsay - which I cannot accept, and I certainly couldn't accept your removal of sources in the articles of concern. Unless you can cite your sources, I will proceed to revert all your edits. Aran|heru|nar 05:34, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The truth of the matter is that the way wiki is designed, is that it does not matter whether a statement is true, only that it is verifiable. So, although you can see that most sites say Millenium has sold 30 million (or less), the fact that one verifiable source says 40 million makes it valid. The same can be said for the other albums also. The only one that is causing issue is Black and Blue sales data, and that is because the page quoted for 24m is a forum so cannot be used. If another non forum link if found, and is a verified link it can be used - regardless on accuracy. 146.171.254.66 (talk) 05:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
YOu are delusional. Their biggest market WAS the US and the US is the biggest market in the world, followed by Japan. But even japanese sales would be miniscule in comparison. The other markets you listed where they were "huge" such as Phillipines, Taiwan, etc. would not even make much of a dent in sales, especially in terms of making it add up to "40 million". Do you even know the specific sales in these countries? Sales certifications may be original research but they're the most reliable to base off of actual worldwide sales. Shipments/sales overall will usually be higher than certifications but not much higher, there's no way it sold even close to 40 million. keep dreaming! China is a huge potential market but most people get pirated copies which don't count and do they even have an official sales tallying body like the RIAA?? NO! Pisch. Clerkwheelboiii (talk) 21:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
  • yeah!!! i totally agree!!! isnt it logic enough? we were once discussing if the album has sold 30 millions!! most of the debators in previous discussions pages supported that the millenium has sold 27-28 million but after endless conversation it was agreed to put 28-30 million on the page. But suddently that stupid backstreet boys lead singer whatever his name is made that stupid interviw with that i dunno what the name is magazine and said that well u know millenium has sold almost 40 millions to date. u crazy people suddently put 40 million on the page!!! this isn't even VALID!! just because a desperate lead singer of a band, which NOBODY actually remembers and which cannot even go gold in the us anymore (nor in any other country of the world), sais that his album has sold 40 million, doesnt mean that we can actually believe him since the FACTS proove him WRONG!!! now listen to the FACTS and not to the stupid interviws. 13 million in the us + about 1.5 to 2 million in the rest of America + APPROXIMATELY 3 million units in Europe (platinum uk 300.00 + 2xplatinum germany 400.000 + 2xplatinum france 400.000 + platinum spain 100.000 + about 1.5 million from other european countries = 2.700.000 so the album has recieved a 3xPlatinum cert. there)+ about 2 million in asia + about 1 million in other countries and stuff = 20.5 million- 21 million! SO WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT THIS $@%!!# ALBUM HAS SOLD 40 MILLIONS??! IT HAS HARDLY SHIPPED 21 MILLION AND ITS SALES SHOULD ACTUALLY BE LESS THAN 20 MILLIONS! BUT OK I ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE SOME CRAZY-OBSSESED BACKSTREET BOYS FANS OUT THERE WHO CANNOT ACCEPT THAT THEIR FAVOURITE ALBUM HAS SOLD LESS THAN 20 MILLION !! OK!!! PUT 30 MILLION I REALLY DONT CARE! BUT DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT PUTING 40 MILLION CAUSE IT IS TOTALLLY CRAZY TO PUT SMTHNG LIKE THIS!!!!!! END OF DISCUSSION!!


ps. 9dont play with my nerves i too have some limits...)

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)