Talk:Bachelor's degree

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[edit] BIS

BIS can also be a Bachelor of International Studies in a number of Australian universities possibly others. http://www.flinders.edu.au/courses/ugrad/bachelor/bis.htm

121.45.42.227 (talk) 11:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Older discussions

The only part of canada that a Honours degree requires an additional year of study is Ontario. In every other province a major, general or honours degree requires the same number of years of study i.e. 3 years in Quebec or 4 years in R.O.C. (Excluding Ontario. I would also like to note that in the US they do have honours degrees and the distinction is determined typically by completion of a theses in addition to extra course work in the major concentration and/or a higher min GPA, this is ture of Harvard but also McGill and UBC in Canada. Soul City

is this the right page to explain the UK system of firsts, 2.1, 2.2, third, etc? If not, where? -- Tarquin

Go ahead, please. I've got no idea what this is, but I'm curious. And if it really doesa not fit in, we'll eventually find some other place.--68.41.122.213 07:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
By the way, in German-speaking countries there is no tradition of Bachelor degrees, but at least in Austria they were introduced by law some years ago. This might also be mentioned, but I'm no expert in this field. --KF 22:00, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

A-DOT----

Should the UK degree classification system mention the percentages associated with each degree? They are:

  • 70%-100% First Class Honours (1st)[[]]
  • 60%-69% Upper Second Class Honours (2:1)
  • 50%-59% Lower Second Class Honours (2:2)
  • 45%-49% Third Class Honours (3rd)
  • 40%-44% Pass without honours
  • 0%-39% Fail

Of course there is some variation between universities (mainly the Scottish ones), but the above system is generally used. Furthermore, we might have to explain to our American chums about the low sounding percentages (that a mark in the mid-sixties is actually very good and that marks above 75% are virtually unheard of).

I also think that this school be spun out into a seperate page (UK Bachelor Degree Honours System?), but it would need to be fuller than it is at present, including full details of the (Scottish) variations.

-- Anon.


Go ahead, be bold! --Menchi 19:02, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I was bold :-) - moved to British Bachelor's degree classification.

In American English these designations are almost invariably written with the terminal period. Also, some universities (most notably MIT) call their B.S. an S.B. instead (and similarly for Master's degrees with S.M. instead of M.S.). Curiously enough, the doctoral degree Sc.D. or D.Sc., although issued much less frequently by American universities, when it is issued is usally abbreviated with "Sc." rather than just "S." as is used for the lesser degrees. Finally, what's the relationship between this topic and the Diplomate designations I see in some European countries?

(As an aside, MIT probably has one of the most complex degree structures of any US university. In electrical engineering, for example, for increasing terms of study one may receive an S.B. [four years], an M.Eng. [five years], an S.M. [six or seven years], an E.E. [same], and any one of several flavors of doctorate. A former colleague of mine actually got most of those, although it took him the better part of fifteen years to do it, stopping for work along the way.) 18.24.0.120 01:50, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think there should be some mention of the B.Phil, a degree awarded at many undergraduate honors colleges.

I've added it, as well as turning hyphens into proper dashes, correcting the abreviations by adding punctuation (which is certainly the official style for most if not all universities), and correcting the abbreviation for the Ll.B. I started a B.Phil. article recently, and added a brief mention of undergraduate degrees by that name. If there's anything that you think deserves to be added (or changed), please do so. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:26, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

[edit] Page Tags

The list of degrees are not EXAMPLES, it is a comprehensive list of the types of B.A.'s. Perhaps they should be on a separate page list or have their own pages. However, getting rid of this list would be akin to getting rid of all of the species in each family of animals because they are 'examples' - clearly they are not examples, but an enumeration of various types!!

♠ I missed the above comment. I agree with its logic. You should make your comments more visible and sign them, so we can see what you're trying to do.--THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 18:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

(presumably, no one wants a B.L.A.)

Why not? Because "liberal arts" is not a valid, scholarly discipline? Or is this sort of a joke, that BLA would be pronounced "blah?" People want "B.S.," I don't see how that's any worse than "B.L.A."

In any case, because the degree title is in Latin, the adjective should (not must, but should) come after the noun it modifies. It's an artis liberalis baccalaureate, or a baccalaureate artis liberalis, not a baccalaureate liberalis artis. (Apologies for the inevitable Latin errors; it's been years since I've touched my copy of Wheelock's.)

I'm going to be bold and edit the B.L.A. remark out, as I can't really see any reason for it to be there.

--68.41.122.213 07:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] why is it called a bachelor's degree

Might be worth a mention?

I'd like to see this too (indeed, the disambiguation page for baccalaureate suggests that's what this page will do) Natebailey 13:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Please add "Bachelor of Liberal Studies" to the list of B.A. degrees. Thank you.

[edit] The Category itself is broken

This is a mess. It is impossible for these pages to be structured like this. As an example, Computer Science can be given a Bachelor of Computer Science or a Bachelor of Science, Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Computing, or even Bachelor of Technology through a specialty. This whole page and section needs a total restructure.--AlphaTwo 04:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I've begun to change the structure to a format similar to Master's degree. The information I wrote was basically reworded from the main articles on the degrees, so I'm not sure if something should be done about that. Foxjwill 20:48, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that in practice, these distinctions are largely irrelevant? If you have, say, a bachelor's in computer science, it makes absolutely no difference whether it's a BA, BS, or something else: employers don't care, your peers don't care, and many people might not even know which one it is unless they actually check their diploma. Which people earn is determined almost exclusively by which university they attended; at some, CS is a BA; at others, it's a BS. Which it is has very little correlation to curriculum or anything else besides tradition. --Delirium 08:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bachelor of Applied Arts and Sciences

I added the BAAS to the list, like at the University of North Texas.--152.163.101.9 04:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Why are the Bachelor degrees in certain countries(The USA, Certain Canadian universities,etc)very broad and contain stuff like general education requirements ? IMHO these are utterly lacking in specialisation, general education should be done with prior to entering an institution of higher learning Kristian Joensen 23:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I think i's good that in the US (e.g. Princeton) and the UK they have a more liberal approach to education. Even in Scandinavia, the system is modular (even if in a different way). This gives students flexibility. In the EU there are concerns that, with the modular system, students will choose the easy modules, but it is actually harder, you end up having a more difficult degree. In some countries education is too specialised, and you get a degree that is very narrowly focussed - is that the virtue of specialisation? I also think that you only specialise at the Masters level (not to be cynical and say, only at the PhD). The first degree is for trying things out. Interdisciplinarity is as much important as specialisation and, upon entering University education, you face this dilemma, but I am not sure what is the answer.Also, the Humanities and the Social Sciences are different than the natural sciences, and disagreements usually come from the latter category. It is up to the universities to establish strict rules for interdisciplinary degrees, and this is where there is a difference from one uni to another and from one country to another. Besides, taking a few modules instead of many does not mean you do not specialise: the courses that you take are the same (applies only to Full Time degrees). Ultimately, there are always those people whi like specialising and the more liberal ones, it is all a matter of inclinations. Thanks.

I don't understand the relevence of North America in the title of the main peice of text relating to the majority of degrees in the English Speaking world. Most of these degrees (and at least the naming system) originate from England. This would be irrelevant to the article, so perhaps Western Degrees, European Style Degrees, International Standard Degrees, take your pick. North American is incredibly not just incredibly introspective, but it's incorrect.

[edit] Bachelor of Philosophy

Why relegate the B.Phil. degree to the bottom of the page? It is renowned and highly respected degree throughout the world, both as an undergraduate degree and a graduate degree. Scholars throughout the world hold it in extraordinarily high regard.

Wikipedians, shall we place it with the more recognisable Bachelor's degrees, rather than let it languish next to highly specialized, relatively obscure degrees (although legitimate degrees, obviously), at the bottom of the page? Certainly the B.Phil's renown surpasses that of Bachelor of Information Technology, etc. By far. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.156.186.85 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 21 April 2006.


As the holder of a B.Phil. myself, I agree broadly with the claim (though it has to be said that most B.Phil. degrees, especially the newer undergraduate ones, are no more world-renowned than any other degree). Still, the article is primarily about undergraduate degrees; moreover, it's not clear to me that they're ordered by value or prestige. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:59, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Question regarding degrees

I have a quick question about degrees. When honours is after the degree, does that mean the person graduated with a higher than 80% average in the course?? Like "English Degree, Honours?" If not this, what???-Dylan Bradbury 21:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It's somewhat specific to the university and the degree. Sometimes honours is an extra year and extra coursework in the first three years, sometimes honours is a one-year standalone program post-Bachelor, and sometimes it reflects the grade. This would be a worthwile addition and clarification to the article.--Limegreen 22:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Honors Discussion

Added a counter-example to the claim that almost all US universities offer 'cum laude' recognition.

I hardly agree with that statement. At most US universities, one must obtain a 3.5 GPA (out of 4.0) to gain 'cum laude'. Out of nearly 1,000 graduating seniors, I was one of only 150 to obtain any honors of 'cum laude,' 'magna cum laude,' or 'summa cum laude' at my undergraduate institution. Only if there is grade inflation or a superior admissions program with normally weighted grades (no bell curve like at MIT) is there likely to be a majority of honors recipients.
Elwood64151 20:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 5 years for a bachelors degree in england?

source please, the most i've seen is four years one of which is an industrial year. I guess the 5 could be counting repeated years but if so that should be made explicit. Plugwash 21:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] times article

at the end of the first paragraph of "england wales and northern ireland" http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8403-1795732,00.html is cited. This article seems to be from the republic of ireland. In particular the third paragraph mentions an irish site first and then goes on to say "for those thinking of applying in great britian and northern ireland" and gives the uk site. Plugwash 21:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BBusSci

Some institutions also offer a Bachelor of Business Science course. An example: http://www.commerce.uct.ac.za/managementstudies/bbussci/


[edit] BSIT

Many institutions offer a Bachelor of Science in Information Technology Examples: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=bsit+site%3A.edu

[edit] Bachelor of Dental Surgery

I'm wondering if we could add a link for the Bachelor of Dental Surgery to this list. I found this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentistry#Dentistry_in_India

The B.D.S. is also conferred in China. I know this because i work with faculty members who were educated there and have this as one of their degrees. Earodrig 20:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

A quick google shows that we in AU/NZ also confer a B.D.S. Natebailey 13:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rite

This addition to a degree title (recorded under US usage, among "cum laude" etc) is unknown to me, a UK citizen, graduate, and adviser in a University. Further, OED does not explain it AT ALL, either with or without fullstops. Could someone explain, please - at least to me, and best, in the article. MacAuslan 14:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Malaysia

The blatant advertisement for UCTI in the Malaysia section has been removed. Wikipedia is not your college brochure.

[edit] Wording of England, Wales and Northern Ireland category

The wording in this section, specifically: "Most degrees are now honours degrees, with an option not to take honours, and the standard length of a Honours bachelor's degree is 3 years." is a bit ambiguous in my opinion. The standard length of an honours degree in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is four years, while an Associates Degree (formerly called the Diploma) is three years, AFAIK. Ma11achy 14:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about Ireland, but in my experience practically all Bachelors degrees in England & Wales are three years in length, except for those with placements and years abroad (usually an additional year between the second & final years) and foundation years (an additional year at the start to bring the candidate up to the degree starting level for whatever reason).
In most universities in England and Wales the de facto distinction between a Bachelor's degree "with honours" and one without is that the latter is a Bachelor's degree denied "honours" for one reason or another - either those that pass but don't get a third, or if the student has had to repeat a year or some other reason. (This can cause confusion as Master's degrees are not awarded with or without honours. But then adding "(Hons)" after the name is an unofficial practice.) Open is the only university I can think of which offers an "Honours degrees" and a degree without honours that have different requirements in terms of study - the ordinary degree is 300 CATS points, the Honours 360.
Degree and non-degree award terminology in the UK is historically rather inconsistent and downright confusing, but there are now moves towards standardisation. "Associates Degree" isn't a term I've heard in the UK sector, but Foundation degrees, Diplomas of Higher Education and Higher National Diplomas are all qualifications awarded for two year's undergraduate level study and would be the equivalent IMHO. Timrollpickering 20:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use of the term "Four year degree"

I'm curious about the American use of the term "four year degree". Certain US employers list having a "four year college degree", or a "four year BS or BA degree from an accredited university" as a requirement. Does the use of the phrase "four year" literally mean the course must have lasted four years, or is this due to some feature of the US education system? (E.g. all Bachelor's degrees in the US last four years, and anything less than that is some lesser degree?)

So, for example, would a three-year BSc Hons. degree from a UK university be equivalent to what these employers are asking for? Is this something which should be explained in the article? Adam McMaster 21:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] France

I think the section on France needs to be revisited. The premise that US Bachelor degrees are equal to French Master degrees doesn't seem right. Reading other Wiki articles on this subject makes me think it's a bit more complex than this.--THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 19:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling?

So is it supposed to be Bachelors degree now? I thought the possessive apostrophe was still mandatory here. The same question could be asked for the Master[']s degree, I guess.

[edit] An entire article that doesn't even answer the question

Why is this happening? The entire article doesn't even answer the question of why and how it came to be known as "Bachelors Degree". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.11.38.122 (talk) 13:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

There is an entire article on "Bachelor" that explains this. Briefly, a "bachelor" was a beginner, unlike a "master" or "doctor," who wasn't. NRPanikker (talk) 06:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)