Talk:Baccarat

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Baccarat is part of WikiProject Gambling, an attempt at building a useful gambling resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information).

This article is unclear on how the house/croupier makes money; what is the house cut? It is also unclear on whether or not the money in the bank is withdrawn by the banker when he "retires" or whether it is passed to the next banker. These rules need an overall, high-order "summary" before the start, as in "the object of the game is to get... and the structure of the game is...". Thanks in advance!

I re-wrote the opening two sections as it was unclear. I hope it makes a little more sense now.

Contents

[edit] Punters?

The use of the term 'punter' in the context of this game is highly inappropriate.

[edit] Baccarat Cards

I was allways under the impression that baccarat cards were numberless and had a more "classy" look to them than regular playing cards.

Oh really? LOL.

Is there any information regarding classic baccarat cards versus what is probably more of a "use whatever deck you can get your hands on" scenario?

In North America, there are no special baccarat cards that I've ever seen. Must be a European thing. Realkyhick 08:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright infringement

The rules to Chemin are taken from http://www.hotlib.com/articles/show.php?t=Baccarat_Chemin_De_Fer_-_Rules_Of_The_Game

They are also make no sense! Damiancorrigan 13:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

They are also make no sense??!??
I've removed it. It wasn't very good anyway, someone who understands the game and can write properly should write something in.Damiancorrigan 10:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

What more of a reference do you want? Article is by J Finney, a well known casino writer.Damiancorrigan 21:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

This article predates what you cite by several years. Please look at the history of the page before removing large sections of articles that are sourced, in this case apparently taken from a 1911 Britannica article. 2005 22:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Glad you finally found the Talk page. The text is widely referenced as being by Finney, I can't tell how to work out when exactly the other page was made. But what I CAN say, is that it is the worst piece of writing I have ever seen, and is in dire need of a clean up. Damiancorrigan 22:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Go to the top of the article page (not this discussion page), click the history link, scroll down to the first page creation, you would find this page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baccarat&oldid=34699 which shows the text was inserted then and taken from that 1911 source referenced in various articles. Whether it is coherent or not and needs cleanup is of course a different isssue. :) In the future if you add a "see discussion" comment to your edit summary that would be helpful if you explain the edit in discussion rather than the edit summary. 2005 22:56, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
But that isn't the same text as in the article today! Have you actually read what you are refering to?

1911: "The banker places before him the sum he wishes to stake and the punters do likewise, unless a punter desires to go bank, signifying his intention by saying, Banco" Today's version: "The dealer places before him the amount he is disposed to risk, and the players "make their stakes." Any punter, beginning with the player on the immediate right of the dealer, is entitled to say "Banco", meaning to "go bank," to play against the whole of the banker's stake." http://www.hotlib.com/articles/show.php?t=Baccarat_Chemin_De_Fer_-_Rules_Of_The_Game: "The dealer places before him the amount he is disposed to risk and the players "make their stakes." Any punter, beginning with the player on the immediate right of the dealer, is entitled to say "Banco", meaning to "go bank," to play against the whole of the banker's stake."

NOW do you see? Damiancorrigan 23:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The offending text was inserted here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baccarat&direction=next&oldid=233090 As you can see, this bears no resemblance to the previous edit, and is NOT from 1911. Damiancorrigan 23:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The article was originally created using an old text. Another editor inserted the text you don't like four years ago. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you. The hotlib.com website was not even registerd to July 2002. While User:Imran's addition may have been copied from somewhere or not, there is no reason to assume the person you referenced who rewrites wikipedia articles on various sites is the original author, particularly since nearly four years has passed now. 2005 00:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Either way it would probably be re-written. The old english style text does not read well by todays standards of writing. And even if it isn't copyright it is plagarism.155.144.251.120 21:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baccarat Deck

Would Baccarat be a better game or a worse game if the 10's, J's, Q's & K's were removed from the deck? Jillbones 21:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The game would be better. In a 6 deck game there would actally be an edge to anyone who bet on Banker of about 0.1% to 0.2%. This is because the banker is more selective on when he draws a card than the player.--155.144.251.120 21:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It would be a different game.

[edit] Rituals

I would love to see a discritpion of the various rituals players use when playing NA baccarat. for example, it is very common for high-rolling aisan players to go through a absurd ritual of bending up the corner or side of the cards in order to "peek" at what they may be, using sheer will to change the value of the card as it lies face down.

Discription?

Another example is the use of score cards to track previous hands. Players then use these cards to 'predict' whether the player or banker will win the next hand (conditional probability).

Sounds very US TPT.

When I play, I like to piss them all off by simply flipping a coin: Heads I bet on Player, Tails I bet on Banker. ckindel 07:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt they are 'pissed off' as you express it. They're probably just regarding your less than sophisticated demeanour.
I think this 'like to piss them off' person does not belong in this discussion.

You are right - BUT : You must take into concideration of the probability of the coincidence of two random /parallel/ eventsTamaslevy 01:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Another TPT here. This is not good.

[edit] What does the word "Baccarat" actually mean?

This is not explained in the article. 81.158.0.23 15:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It is the name of a card game. However, perhaps you mean "what is the origin of the word". The word entered French from Provençal in the fifteenth century. The Provençal spelling was "baccara": there is no evident justification for the French addition of a silent t. The word cannot be traced further back with any certainty, but it and the game are thought to have originated in medieval Italy, and it is suggested that at the time the word "baccara" was in use to mean zero: hence the use of the word to designate a hand worth zero in the game. For a fuller account (in French) see: http://www.casino-3000.com/fr/histoire-du-baccarat.html.

217.158.132.22 09:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Casino Royale

In fact, the game played in this novel is the one described here as "Baccarat Banque" - although the casino does not have enough players for Le Chifre (who has bought the bank for the evening) to play against two tables at once.

[edit] External Link section.

I'm of the opinion that the (only) link in the external links [sic] section is unimportant to the article. It only describes one version of the game, and not significantly better than the article itself. The link text itself also is overly commercialized fluff ("A great Site explaining Baccarat in simple clear language"). Cnj 03:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Being a baccarat addict, I came across this free non-commercial baccarat course from Asia. The teacher is obviously trying to change the way we Chinese all play from superstition-based to mathematical-based. There was no charge to study the course and I was never solicited because I had studied the course. So I decided to add the link to give others a chance to see this material.

As per the commented instructions on the edit page for Baccarat, I would like you to consider a link for the "External Links". The site is Baccarat Advisor It gives a history of the game, the rule, variations, comments on strategy. Also throughout it emphasizes the fact that Baccarat is not so much a game of strategy as a game for enjoyment, and that gamblers should understand that it is NOT a platform for making millions of dollars from the casinos.72.251.53.15 (talk) 15:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Makccarat

A new game has appeared in Sands and Venetian Macau (and it appears on a Macau government gambling statistics website). It is played as baccarat is with the same amount of cards but the rules are very different in terms of when a card is drawn and how tax is taken. I'm wondering if we need a new article or if it can fit in this article.DietEvil (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

If it meets WP:V and WP:N, then it could be its own article, but if it is just acasino variation, then it probably just merits a couple sentences here, for now at least. 2005 (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I have added it below Mini-Baccarat and I'm sure the wording isn't terribly clear but I did the best I could. If anyone needs any clarification or wants to help re-write it, I more than welcome your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DietEvil (talk • contribs) 04:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)