Talk:Atlanta, Georgia

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Good article Atlanta, Georgia has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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[edit] GA on hold

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

  • Every statement that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs an inline citation.
  • References should state the author, publisher, publishing date and access date if known.
  • "See also" templates belong at the top of sections.
  • There are too many one line paragraphs.

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 12:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Fixed all of the "See also" templates.
  • Added inline citations or deleted challenged statements within the "Religion" section, which accounted for the majority of the "citation needed" tags in this article.
  • Will continue the cleanup as time provides.
    --JKeene 01:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
  • All previously challenged statements now have citations.
  • Reviewed all inline references and fleshed out where possible.
  • Merged several one line paragraphs into larger paragraphs, or expanded where possible.
    --JKeene 23:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Further citations are needed in the History, Entertainment and performing arts, Sports, Media, and Law and government sections. Epbr123 12:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I've had to delist the article, but please renominate once citations are provided for these statements:

"In 1836 the Georgia General Assembly voted to build the Western and Atlantic Railroad"
"work was moved to Montgomery's Ferry for a savings of $18,000 per mile from the geography differences"
"The first store, a general store, was opened at the site in 1839 by John Thrasher and a Mr. Johnson"
"The town had grown to 6,000 residents."
"In 1868, Atlanta became the fifth city to serve as the state capital."
"In 1880, Sister Cecilia Carroll, RSM, and three companions traveled from Savannah to Atlanta to minister to the sick. The sisters opened the Atlanta Hospital (later to become Saint Joseph's Hospital), the first medical facility in the city after the Civil War."
"The federal government established Techwood Homes, the nation's first federal housing project in 1935"
"On October 19, 1960, a sit-in at the lunch counters of several Atlanta department stores led to the arrest of Dr. King and several students, drawing attention from the national media and from presidential candidate John F. Kennedy."
"In 1961, Mayor Ivan Allen Jr. became one of the few Southern white mayors to support desegregation of Atlanta's public schools."
"While the city mostly avoided confrontation, minor race riots did occur in 1965 and in 1968."
"multi-platinum selling artists such as Toni Braxton, TLC, OutKast, Goodie Mob, Monica, Usher and Ciara"
"Keyshia Cole, Bow Wow, B5, Phife Dawg, T-Pain, and Brian Littrell of the Backstreet Boys have moved to the city and made it their home"
"Atlanta is also a well known place for producers and artists trying to get into the music business."
"Atlanta has also produced rock and pop music singers, such as The Black Crowes, alternative metal band Sevendust, sludge metal band Mastodon, ska/punk band Treephort, rock bands Swimming Pool Q's, Uncle Green (a.k.a 3 Lb. Thrill), Light Pupil Dilate, Big Fish Ensemble, Collective Soul and Third Day, the folk-pop Indigo Girls, Butch Walker, and was a proving ground for Connecticut-born pop-rock-blues musician John Mayer."
"Peachtree Road Race, the world’s largest 10 km race"
"and is the eighth largest designated market area (DMA) in the U.S. with 2,310,490 homes (2.05% of the total U.S.)"
"each mayor elected since 1973 has been black."
"in 2006 a federal jury convicted former mayor Bill Campbell on three counts of tax evasion in connection with gambling income he received while Mayor during trips he took with city contractors." Epbr123 23:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I've marked these statements as "citation needed" and begun the process of providing citations. 1 of 18 complete.
--JKeene 03:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
+3 "citation needed" or "original research" added by Loodog: 6 of 21 complete.
--JKeene 05:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] climate section

why don't you use the official records and averages for the city of atlanta you idiot. found on noaa.gov —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.242.234.29 (talk) 16:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population 'estimates'

Why are some of the suburb population numbers followed by 'estimate' when it appears that all of the numbers are estimates?Ryoung122 03:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Those are new cities whose populations have not been surveyed by the census. AUburnTiger (talk) 22:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drought?

Why is there no mention in the article of the pending water shortage? National media such as the New York Times and USA Today have discussed the low water level in Lake Lanier, and Atlanta has been much in the news in this regard. A Google News search sith the terms "drought" and "Atlanta" produces numerous sources [1] . Edison (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Be Bold and change it.--Loodog (talk) 03:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clark Atlanta Univ

Knowledgeable Atlantans: Does Clark Atlanta University merit first (or any) mention among the two or three most prominent universities in Atlanta? I suspect an alum/fan (User:205.129.164.35) is overstating its importance. - Special-T (talk) 15:02, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colleges and universities

The "most prominent" should only include nationally recognized universities located in Atlanta. Georgia State and Clark Atlanta are both good institutions, but not as well known on the national level as Emory and Georgia Tech. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.33.130 (talk • contribs)

I agree. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 18:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Thanks for explaining your changes. THe real problem is the phrase "most prominent", which is not qualified or defined. Who decides which is most prominent? WHy is it only nationally-recognized schools, and who determines which those are? Without any sources to clarify this, I've removed the phrase. I hope this satisfies you. - BillCJ (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sports

I completely reworked the sports section. I added two subheadings, shortened the topics on the Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers as well as including main article links to their main pages. Further I removed mentions of defunct teams and organizatons not based in Atlanta, such as the "Georgia Force." I have saved all of the deleted references on a word document of my computer, so if anyone feels I was unjustified in removing them I will be happy to re-introduce them if you let me know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AUburnTiger (talk • contribs) 22:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly sure why mention of Atlanta as one of three U.S. cities to host summer games is tagged onto a paragraph about civil rights and race relation issues in the intro - perhaps it should be a separate paragraph? jmdeur 15:15 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regaining Good Article status -- you can help!

With some minor work this article can once again be GA-class. The main reason it was delisted a few weeks ago was due to lack of citations. Most of those issues have been fixed.

If we address the remaining citation issues and give the article a good copy editing it can pass GA review. Happy New Year, Majoreditor (talk) 19:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sister city: "ANCIENT Olympia"?

Ive never seen a sister city that refers to another city in the past..is this some kind of mistake? Looked up Olympia to see if it still exists or died out like Sparta-it has a commune of about 1000 people living there, so why not modern Olympia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.121.247.116 (talk) 02:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I find this rather odd myself, but not only does the Sister Cities source corroborate the listing, the City of Atlanta's website does too: http://www.atlantaga.gov/international/listing.aspx. Very odd indeed. As best I can tell, "Ancient Olympia" is the modern proper name for the settlement -- Template:Elis includes "Ancient" in the name. • WarpFlyght (talk • contribs) 04:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Metro area population figures

In the demographic section, where do the metropolitan area population figures come from? They are not from the given reference, which only tabulates the population of the city. A little digging on the Census Bureau's site didn't turn up anything promising as a possible source, either. Could someone provide a reference for these numbers? If one can't be located, the data should probably be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.21.143 (talk) 16:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 14 March 2008 storm

Here are some photos:

chair debris

Car crushed by sign near Centennial Olympic Park

CNN Center after the storm

Heavily damaged building next to Centennial Olympic Park

Damage to Centennial Olympic Park

Damage to Centennial Olympic Park fence

Glass debris on sidewalk

Metal debris around tree

Metal debris near Peachtree Center Marta station

Phillips Arena after the storm

Rock Pigeon killed in storm

Sign brought down by the storm

Window damage to OMNI Hotel

Windows of CNN offices after the storm

--mav (talk) 17:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Errr ... thanks, but, what exactly do you want to do with these photos? Are you posting them here to ask editors to select one to include in the article? Majoreditor (talk) 20:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
If somebody can find an appropriate place for one of them, yes. I think that is obvious. --mav (talk) 02:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Why was the small note about the Muslim Mosque al-Farooq removed? This is not something made up. I have seen the mosque myself. Just go to 14th Street and you can see that the exterior is all complete. The interior just needs to be completed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.237.10.162 (talk) 21:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link to a profile about the mosque. It is not current, but it is pretty accurate. Since it is not recent the small bit about progress not being made in the mosque's expansion is not true as only the interior remains to be completed. Everything is expected to be finished within the next two months, but if it is not finished by then it will most definitely be finished by the end of this year. [[2]] Here is a picture of what the mosque looks like at this time: [[3]]

Because it did not cite verifable reliable sources attesting to its notability, per WP policies. - BillCJ (talk) 00:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I moved the information about the Eastern Catholic parishes into the same paragraph with the Roman Catholic archdiocese since they are the same church in that both are under the authority of the Pope. I then moved the information about the Episcopal Church to its own paragraph since it is a different church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User258 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Good article

I renominated Atlanta for good article status. All current editors, please review the good article criteria and make any changes that will increase the article's chances of passing. If you have not contributed significantly to this article, feel free to evaluate it.

All the issues bought up during the last review have been addressed. After reviewing the good article criteria myself, I believe it currently meets all criteria. However, there is always room for improvement.
--JKeene (talk) 03:10, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

As from what I can tell, this article meets the good article criteria. Most if not all of the issues that resulted in its delistment, especially the unreferenced statements, have been resolved. connor.carey (talk) 22:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added some additional citations to shore up the article. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do to assist. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 03:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Note to GA reviewer

If you have a keen eye you may notice that I recently protected the Atlanta, Georgia article on 28 March. This has subsequently been removed and the article unprotected after a mistake on my part as I looked over the article history and thought those that have vandalised the article are still active, when in fact they are not. Hopefully this comment will allay concerns that the article is unstable and I would like to express my thoughts that this article is sufficiently comprehensive for good article status and does not violate #5 of the good article criteria, which it is being assessed against. Regards, Rudget. 14:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I have read the talk and know why the article was delisted. So I will keep a special eye on that. Your article meets the criteria with a couple of exceptions, so I am placing this article on hold.

(More complete treatment at GA criteria.)

    1. Clear prose, including proper spelling, grammar, and clear language. Also look for proper formatting and organization of the article, with appropriate use of wikilinks, sections, table of contents, and general organization as spelled out in the areas of the Manual of Style outlined in the Good Article criteria.
    2. Adequate referencing, preferably with the use of either inline or Harvard citations.[1]
    3. Appropriate broadness in coverage of the topic.
    4. Written from a neutral point of view.
    5. Article is stable, with no active edit wars.
    6. If images are used, that they are free images, or if they are copyright, that their use is covered by Wikipedia's fair use guidelines.

1) I like the prose as it communicates the ideas clearly. Watch for the passive voice in the Tourism and Religion sections (is, are, was verbs). Keep an eye on that throughout the article as little pieces here and there are in passive voice. At the end of the religion section: are there just only eight churches in Atlanta, or eight churches in the Salvation Army? At the end of the first paragraph in "transportation," could you move that sentence into a

Main article: [[|]]
reference?
  • Excellent point on the religion section. I have now fixed the issue. Majoreditor (talk) 02:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

2) Your referencing works out fantastic. I did find a couple of holes. First, in the economy section, does a development authority have information about the Fortune 1000 having a great presence in Atlanta? Second, also in economy section, could you place a reference in the CDC paragraph.

  • I think the article contains an in-line citation on the number of large comanies headquartered in metro Atlanta. The citation is to the Fortune 500 list, which is a highly respected ranking of US corporations. Majoreditor (talk) 02:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I have just added an in-line citation for the CDC per GA reviewer's request. Majoreditor (talk) 02:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

3) You may want to collapse the "Major League" and "Other Sports" into the "Sports" section as those two sections are a little short to be on their own. I would also urge you to collapse all subsections of "education" into one section. Any other sections that are short should be collapsed into the parent section. The only section I would keep the structure would be "culture" (with the exception of sports that was previously discussed). "Surrounding Cities" should go to the "Geography" section.

  • Good suggestion from GA reviewer on eduction. I have collapsed two of the smaller sections together. Majoreditor (talk) 02:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

4) The article's NPOV works.

5) I noticed a lot of activity in the history log since the nomination, but I noticed that most of it is due to vandalism. Good.

6) You have a great images. As for the copyright, someone should check into the copyright tag on the Atlanta Flag to make sure all is proper. You will see the problem on the page.

  • Can someone help with the image tag for the city flag? Much appreciated! Majoreditor (talk) 03:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


I'll come back in a week unless you take care of the matters before then. Let me know. Best- Chrisfortier (talk) 20:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

It appears that editors have fixed some of the issues you want addressed, such as passive voice. Let's see if we can finish working on the rest of the issues this week. Thanks, Majoreditor (talk) 02:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good. Drop me a message when you feel like all is ready. Chrisfortier (talk) 18:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Additional GA Point

I am just about ready to give the article GA status. The one thing that is holding the article right now is the status of the flag (issue #6). The copyright tag is obsolete and needs updating. When this is addressed, I will grant the article GA status. Chrisfortier (talk) 19:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I will look into the flag issue. The worst case is that we may need to remove it. I am going to see if someone can help securing a valid copyright. I should be able to have this issue resolved one way or another by the weekend. Thank you for your patience. Majoreditor (talk) 21:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the image from the article as I have been unable to resolve the copyright issue. That should remove the final GA review issue. Thanks, Majoreditor (talk) 01:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
You have taken care of all my concerns. Thank you for your hard work and congratulations on passing GA! Chrisfortier (talk) 03:21, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA reassessment review

This article still has some significant issues, and I would certainly not have promoted it as quickly as it has been. The article is now being listed at WP:GAR so that the issues may be addressed. If they are not, the article will be delisted.

  • Article order has issues, and there are too subsections and sections, especially in the 'culture' section. I would recommend moving 'media' and 'sports' into their own separate main sections, located immediately after culture. Remove the subsections from sports and try to weave the information into one main section better. It might help to take a look at the guidelines for US cities for a better idea of how the article should be structured to help resolve these issues.
  • Promote the 'economy' and 'demographics' sections; they should be located further up. Article should begin with history, then geography, then demographics, then economy. 'Cityscape' and 'Architecture' are not normally included as main sections; cityscape is usually included as a subsection within geography. The 'architecture' section has very little content, which could be an issue with the completeness criterion, and it also lacks reference citations, another issue with the GA criteria.
  • The discussion on civil rights could use a rewrite; I don't think it adequately addresses the topic. The last two sentences on it, in the next paragraph ("Despite these incidents, Atlanta's political and business leaders labored to foster Atlanta's image as "the city too busy to hate". In 1961, Mayor Ivan Allen Jr. became one of the few Southern white mayors to support desegregation of Atlanta's public schools.") don't really seem to go together very well? They seem to be two distinct events that only are connected in that they are both related to civil rights issues, but other than that, they are not connected; but they appear to be connected in this article.
I also think that more should be said about the city's gentrification and white flight following civil rights as well. This is certainly an important issue in the city's history that is not being done very well in this article. More can also be said about the city's rapid growth and urban sprawl after the civil rights issues, instead of just jumping to the 1990s olympics. In other words, there is a serious issue with the completeness criterion here.
  • The 'topography' subsection header is unnecessary. The geography section should begin with a discussion on the general topography and landscape; subsection headers should not be used to begin main sections.
  • There are entirely too many images in the article starting right after the climate section and going into the cityscape section. It's looking very crowded and the article quality is suffering because of it. The '2008 atlanta tornado' section should actually fall under 'history' instead of 'climate', since it's historical, and it probably does not need a subsection header -- it would be better to integrate it into the appropriate area of the history section instead. The 'see also' link in the 'cityscape' section is also out of place, mostly due to the two images that are placed at the beginning of the section.
  • Move the 'religion' section from 'culture' to 'demographics'; it's more related in that section.
  • The 'law and government' section has several subsections. 'Crime' might be better served being covered with 'demographics'. 'Surrounding cities' is more related to 'Geography'.
  • The 'education' section is really nothing more than a listing of schools in disguise as prose, and really doesn't tell us too much more about the schools themselves, and how they are related to each other. I would strongly encourage getting rid of the subsection headers here, and discuss the education system in Atlanta from the K-12 level and then leading into the higher education opportunities all as one section. Watch for flowery words in this section like describing schools as "prestigious" and "notable private schools". How are they prestigious? How are they notable? People's opinions may vary widely here.
  • A citation is definitely needed on the discussion of "terms like ITP and OTP" (inside the perimeter). Non-residents will not be familiar with these terms, and a citation in a major, repudable media source is needed so this is considered to be more than just a colloquialism. The first letter of each word should also not be bolded, per WP:MOS.
  • 'See List of airports in the Atlanta area for a more complete listing.' should be moved and formatted as a 'see also' link at the top of the 'transportation' section, instead of included in article text.
  • A cite is needed on the 'spaghetti junction' reference. It should also be pointed out that Atlanta is NOT the only city that has an interchange which is commonly called this, so I'm not sure how notable it is here.
  • Lots of uncited material in the sports section. It does have some citations, but lots of material should be cited that isn't (hence the tag). Why is there a single citation on one item in the table listing, but none of the other items have citations?
  • The article needs a good copyedit as well, preferably by an editor familiar with the manual of style.

Dr. Cash (talk) 22:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, Derek. Frankly, I was a bit surprised when the article was nominated for GA status as it could stand a good editing. I try to help out on this article from time to time, mostly by adding citations, but I haven't read it from front to back in a while.
I'll start checking out your concerns in the next two to three days. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 00:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
With regard to the removal of the rather haphazard list of private schools (including many that are not actually in Atlanta), I would think that some mention of the city's private secondary schools deserves a mention. Any ideas on how this might be done without invoking POV? Qqqqqq (talk) 01:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
With regard to the removal of the panoramic images, I would think that these are useful to the article. Why not reduce the size rather than simply removing them? Qqqqqq (talk) 13:38, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't have an opposition to the panoramic images, necessarily. As a matter of fact, sometimes those are some of the better ones. But the particular area where all the images are crowded around just after climate doesn't look very good at all, and could present serious problems for those with smaller screen sizes (remember, not everyone has that 24" LCD flat panel that some of us have ;-). Dr. Cash (talk) 16:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have no opposition to panoramic photos, but they were awkwardly positioned in the article, and the article still has too many images. Please feel free to remove and reposition images, as long as we work toward tightening up the layout.
A better way to handle Atlanta's secondary private school may be to spin it off into a daughter article with either no mention or a very brief 1-2 sentence mention in this article. Majoreditor (talk) 16:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
What about reducing the panoramic shots to thumbs? Might that work? On another note, I'll get to copy-editing the entire article. Qqqqqq (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
A thumb shot might work -- give it a try. Any thoughts on which images may be best to eliminate?
On a separate note, I think the lead will need to be better developed per WP:LEAD. I'll help out on that issue over the next few days. Majoreditor (talk) 21:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

(<-) We're making steady progress on addressing Derek's concerns. I am focusing first on adding in-line citations where needed. Next I'll expand the lead. The final step will be to copy-edit the article. Please feel free to pitch in and help out. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 02:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Continuing to make progress; I'll try to finish up after I return from vacation. Majoreditor (talk) 01:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

WP:Good article usage is a survey of the language and style of Wikipedia editors in articles being reviewed for Good article nomination. It will help make the experience of writing Good Articles as non-threatening and satisfying as possible if all the participating editors would take a moment to answer a few questions for us, in this section please. The survey will end on April 30.

  • Would you like any additional feedback on the writing style in this article?


  • If you write a lot outside of Wikipedia, what kind of writing do you do?


  • Is your writing style influenced by any particular WikiProject or other group on Wikipedia?


At any point during this review, let us know if we recommend any edits, including markup, punctuation and language, that you feel don't fit with your writing style. Thanks for your time. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "punitive" march

I removed the word "punitive" from the section dealing with the razing of Atlanta. This term is unnecessarily pejorative, and, by denying the important strategic aspects of Sherman's campaign, it conveys a subjective analysis which is not the place for an encyclopedia. This edit shouldn't be terribly controversial, but you really never know... --Badger Drink (talk) 20:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


Hello, great article, y'all! I hope I am not messing this up in any way. Just wanted to point out that Piedmont is not Atlanta's largest park. I think that's probably a fairly common misconception. The largest park in the city is actually Chastain (268 acres), followed by Southside, Atlanta Memorial, Freedom and then Piedmont. http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/parks/burparks_parklocations.aspx Thanks again for all the great work! --arblaw (talk) 04:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ref #102

The Atlanta Journal Constitution article on crime referenced in the article is no longer at the web address given. I'm not sure how to treat this - don't want to just remove it. - Special-T (talk) 14:03, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Colleges and Universities

The University of Georgia is not located in Atlanta. It's about 70 miles away in Athens. Silver4004 (talk) 20:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I have corrected the article. Majoreditor (talk) 02:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)