Talk:Asphalt

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Bitumen and asphalt are both naturally occuring minerals that are used in various combinations to create a very durable surface suitable for roads. The finished combination is often called tarmac which, strictly speaking, is incorrect. Tarmac is short for "tar-macadam", meaning a coating of tar (or bitumen) on the surface of a macadamised road - this being the near-universal modern method of road construction invented by John MacAdam near the end of the 18th Century. It involves laying a well-drained foundation of large stones, overlaid with crushed rock, which is bound with gravel, watered, and compacted to form a tough, durable roadway which can shed rainwater and stand up to heavy traffic. MacAdam built experimental roads on his private estate in Scotland, then became responsible for road building in the Bristol area, and was eventually made surveyor-general of roads in England. By the end of the 19th Century, his methods had been adopted all over the world. With the rise of the bicycle and the motor car came the final refinment: spreading a thin layer of asphalt over the surface of a macadised road to form "tar-macadam" or, as it is called today, "tarmac".

It seems that Karen's keyboard is running hot. I'll go find an area where I don't have to type so fast! Tannin

I'm not all that proficient in English, and do not know what "roofing shingles" mean. Kdict offers the following explanations for 'shingles':

1) Eruptions along a nerve path often accompanied by severe neuralgia 2) A kind of herpes (Herpes zoster) which spreads half way around the body like a girdle, and is usually attended with violent neuralgic pain.

Niether of which seems appropriate. Is there a typo here, or do shingles mean tiles? Cederal

Yep: shingles is effectively another word for tiles: in Australia at least I'd use to mean small tiles, typically made of wood, but can't speak for other forms of english. --GPoss 09:37, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Suggest 1 possible wiki link and 1 possible backlink for Asphalt.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Asphalt article:

  • Can link organic matter: ...al material produced by the [[destructive distillation]] of organic matter. Both tars and asphalts are classified as [[bitumen]]s, a ...

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  • In Pat Metheny, can backlink ASPHALT: ...ida Greeting Song, Legend Of The Fountain, See Song * BLUE ASPHALT / PAT METHENY GROUP (Lobster CD003) Pat Metheny(g) Lyle May...

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[edit] Ashphalt

The mis-spelling is not rare, as a Google search shows, and the mis-pronounciation is not rare either (I didn't know it was a mis-pronounciation). Brianjd 06:18, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)

Brianjd, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here if you are going to use Google to back this up. There are 8,510 hits for ashphalt vs. 5,070,000 hits for asphalt, so that is a rate of about 1 misspelling in 1,000, which is definitely uncommon—moreover it seems like there is actually a band or song with the neologism "ashphalt" in it so not all of these are actually misspellings for asphalt. If every misspelling that occurred at a rate of 1 in 1000 or more was included in Wikipedia, then most of the entries in Wikipedia would need a section containing a litany of misspellings. I am going to take this back out. Please do not revert this unless you can provide a new justification as to why this is an exceptional enough misspelling to mention here. NTK 06:27, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mispronounciation

If find it hard to believe that asphalt is one of the most mispronounced words in the english language. Sources? I personally have never heard the pronounciation "ashfalt". Everyone I know says "asfalt". But maybe I live a sheltered life? :-) 137.222.40.132 13:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I've heard several Canadian and one least one Aussie engineer pronounce it "Ash-falt". I always figured it was a Commonwealth thing like "Aluminium". The fact that I've heard it from the lips of folks who deal with the stuff on a daily basis leads me to think of it as a regional pronounciation rather than a mis-pronounciation. I can't recall ever hearing that pronounciation from someone born and raised in the US. Toiyabe 19:43, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Canadian's in my experience typically pronounce it as ashfalt.--65.94.105.144 01:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
This is correct. You will be hard-pressed to find a Canadian who doesn't pronounce it as ashfalt or ashfault. However, in our own little corner of the world, ashfalt/ashfault is, indeed, the correct pronounciation, and you will be corrected if you don't start the word with ash. Snickerdo 05:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, as far as Canadians are concerned (being one myself), the proper pronunciation, given our own little dialect, is "ash-fault". However, the proper spelling does remain "asphalt", as far as technical fields are concerned at least (I'm currently in a chemical engineering program).

I have also heard "ash-falt" many times in Ireland, especially from my father. He is a civil engineer, now retired. On searching in google for "Ireland Ashphalt" there were 34,800 hits. A lot less than the 1.280.000 hits for "Ireland Asphalt" but still enough to show that it is, or at least was for my father's generation, an acceptable pronunciation. The rate in this case is 1 in 50 and not 1 in 1000 as stated by NTK.—This unsigned comment was added by 83.40.166.254 (talk • contribs) .

Regarding British pronounciation, I've found between English, Scottish and Welsh-English speakers it is either "ass-felt" or "ass-fall-t". --Myfanwy 16:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

In UK construction, "ash-felt" is widely used. I have never heard "ass-falt" used by anyone in civil engineering

I work in asphaltene research and work with people from various parts of the world and I see no regional pattern with the mispronunciation. It may be that the mispronunciation is steming from the silent letter 'p' causing people to misread the word and say ashphalt instead of asphalt. It is my understanding that not reading words properly enables the human mind to read much faster than it otherwise could. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_reading) I don't understand why the Canadians are taking a stance on an understandable mispronunciation as if its part of their constitution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anderthevulchar (talk • contribs) 16:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

 Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (January 2007)

It would be interesting to learn more about the history of the technology, and the reasons why it has changed. -- Beland 00:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Low Temperature Mixing Section

Anybody mind if I remove the "Low Temperature Mixing Section". It is huge, irrelevant and wholy copied from an external source. If anything it should be put into a separate article. However an external link should suffice. Toiyabe 17:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with bitumen

The bitumen article is very similar to this one and it's not really necessary to have two separate articles. I think bitumen should be merged with this article, or asphalt be merged into bitumen and this article remains to distinguish the otheses of the term "asphalt" (there is only one use for the term "bitumen" so keeping the articles separate might reduce ambiguity). Suggestions? Eirinn 09:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, bituminous concrete and asphalt are the same thing, so I think the asphalt article should be the "main", and the bitmun content added to the "main" article (like the alternatives section is good). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frmorrison (talk • contribs) 20:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, asphalt and bitumen should not be merged. Asphalt is used to describe a range of mixtures of bitumen with mineral components (sand, stone, etc.), ranging from the asphalt found in natural lakes (such a Trinidad) with less than 20% mineral components to porous asphalt with under 5% of bitumen. Bitumen is the 'pure' material giving asphalt it's visco-elastic properties. Finally, asphalt concrete is the full name for asphalt mixtures that have a concrete-like composion, giving it a relatively great resistance against deformation. Asphalt concrete is abundantly used as a road construction material. The new EU legislation on asphalt distinguishes seven types of asphalt mixtures, and one of these is asphalt concrete. However, other types of asphalt (e.g. stone mastic asphalt, porous asphalt and mastic) may be referred to as asphalt concrete in practice as well. And I must admit that I'm not familiar with the usage of 'asphalt concrete' outside Europe. 145.92.16.135 08:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that they should be merged, linking them together makes more sense. One usage of bitumen in the U.S.A. is as an adhesive for installing raised pavement markers on roadways. -- unsigned comment I don't feel like finding who did... Strawberry Island 18:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what bitumen is and if I type that into the search box I want to know exactly what it is... not be redirected to asphalt. Even it 95% of the bitumen article gets merged into the asphalt that is fine but leave something in the bitumen article to tell us what it is in straight terms. Strawberry Island 18:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's a good idea. Governments in Canada define bitumen as crude oil that will not flow toward a well under reservoir conditions, whereas asphalt is considered a refinery by-product used to pave roads. Since Canadian production of bitumen from the Athabasca oil sands is increasing rapidly and will soon constitute most of the oil produced in the country, the distinction is significant. Unbeknownst to most Americans, Canada is already the largest exporter of oil and refined products to the United States and the volumes are growing steadily. RockyMtnGuy (talk) 03:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Oppose merger Merger is not a good idea for reasons set forth by others above. If anything a further split may be needed to adequately cover the topic of "asphaltum" and natural deposits. Cewvero (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
  • This merger tag should be removed since it has had eight months to gestate and has failed to rally support. The commentors are generally opposed to this merge. A merger should only be performed if there is a clear consensus to merge. Cewvero (talk) 18:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Asphalt" versus "Asphalt concrete"

The article states that the material often used in road construction"is usually called 'asphalt concrete' in North America or simply 'asphalt' elsewhere". I live in North America (Massachusetts), and I've never before heard the term "asphalt concrete". Once in a while I've heard the material called "bituminous concrete", but it's almost always "asphalt" in my experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtgriscom (talk • contribs) 13:55, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I live in Canada and never heard of asphalt contrete until I read this article. I've only ever heard the name "ash-fault" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.179.151 (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe if you were talking to a roading engineer and spoke to that person about ACM you might get educated a little. ACM stands for asphaltic concrete matrix and it, to a road engineer, describes a whole range of mixtures that can be used for the water-proofing of the underlying matrix and, to some extent, the load-bearing surface that people drive their vehicles on. The matrix varies with the required load-bearing performance, the trafficing performance (wet or dry, hot of cold) and the wear resistance of the surface. Lin (talk) 10:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shell advertising

The article inclusion on vegetable oil based asphalt is clearly Shell's "advertising" its products and shoud be removed as susch. 124.181.200.222 14:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bitumen, not Asphalt

195.110.213.100 (talk) 15:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC) This article is definetely about Bitumen. Bitumen is the commonly used term for "Bitumen binder" The term "Asphalt" for the bitumen binder is used mostly by american-english speaking natives only and technically incorrect. Asphalt in technical terms means the bitumen binder mixed with gravel and brought to ground building roads - this is asphalt. A road is made of asphalt. Asphalt is made of gravel and bitumen binder. 195.110.213.100 (talk) 15:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This gets into the usual problem on Wikipedia with the collision between different dialects of English, each nation appearing to believe that theirs is the only true version. The above definition appears to be British. The Canadian definition of bitumen in legal terms is "crude oil that will not flow toward a well under reservoir conditions". This is important, because Canadian has 85% of the world's reserves of bitumen defined according to the Canadian definition, and the total area of them exceeds the size of England. Asphalt is defined as a refinery byproduct used to pave roads, which is more or less the same as the American definition. Americans seem to use "asphalt" and "bitumen" more or less interchangeably. RockyMtnGuy (talk) 19:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I see three issues here; (1) should the articles be merged? (2) if so, what should the merged name be? (3) how should asphalt concrete be treated? Regarding (1); they are largely duplicative, I think, so merging seems warranted. (2) I don't have an opinion; redirects help readers looking for either term. (3) asphalt concrete should be treated in a separate section in the merged article. Asphalt (both usages), asphalt concrete, and bitumen are closely related and it is easier to address the confusion among the various terms in one article, not two. Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bitumen has been used in painting...

Since Bitumen was used in painting in the 19th century in such a way that it helped define a certain artistic technique, it should probably have it's own entry.Strangebright (talk) 19:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Strangebright

[edit] About that painting thing...

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia's entry on the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood:

  This emphasis on brilliance of colour was in reaction to the excessive use of bitumen by  
  earlier British artists, such as Reynolds, David Wilkie and Benjamin Robert Haydon. 
  Bitumen produces unstable areas of muddy darkness, an effect that the Pre-Raphaelies   
  despised.

It sounds like this would distinguish it from asphalt per se, unless I'm missing something here.Strangebright (talk) 19:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Strangebright

[edit] The same?

I think not... They come from different sources and bitumen is added to asphalt to change the compound depending on its intended use. They are different in many ways so I don't think merging these topics would be appropriate.

Chris (talk) 19:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose merge. Not the same. Cewvero (talk) 14:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why nor reliable Reference text not allowed?

Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove unwanted links and spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia.

The external links I reverted were matching the following regex rule(s): rule: '\bmultiply\.com' (link(s): http://widyatmoko.multiply.com/journal/item/17) .

Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! XLinkBot (talk) 12:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Why you delete my added information please? for article be reliable reference must be show.Liuliu45 (talk) 12:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I have read info on wikipedia guide line and i only add reference to what exists on the asphalt page already such as this reference link to the other companies also yes?[1]I also add reference link to Bitumen page which was for UNEP [1] which you remove, why you say this not reliable information link? Liuliu45 (talk) 12:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Because UNEP is reliable link reference i put link back ok? I appreciate very much you helping me Liuliu45 (talk) 12:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC) I also add good credible reference link from CSIRO to asphalt publication article that show info on this geo320 paving invention yes? [2]I thinking if asphalt article have info on this product same as shell or colas have same, then is ok to show reference yes? Liuliu45 (talk) 12:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)Liuliu45 (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liuliu45 (talk • contribs) I add one more reference ok, that shoe credible link on product showed on pitt & sherry road conference in Australia [3] Liuliu45 (talk) 13:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

This seems another sock of user:Ecopave. You are adding these links since the original documents are all blacklisted. --Dirk Beetstra T C 14:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You is paranoid sir! you is not well! Kimlee2 (talk) 04:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
It appear you is on a hunt yes because the References has been purposely sabotaged so one can not edit on article page!! Kimlee2 (talk) 04:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If the Alternative article is to be credible, then good references must be showed this is Wikipedia own guideline yes. If you only show colas and shell this may be bias yes! I put good reference link to show who invent asphalt bitumen in first place please no remove or you malisiously sabotage article content yes! [This bio-bitumen GEO320 technology was first invented and pioneered by Ecopave Australia in the 1980's and 1990's[4]]. thanking you for help. Kimlee2 (talk) 04:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Another sock of Ecopave! Kimlee2, or whoever you are, please stop making new accounts, they will be reverted and blocked anyway. All the 'references' you add are to ecopave info (since you are not capable anymore to insert links to ecopave itself) and that is deemed promotional. Please choose one main account, request an unblock on that, and only use that account. And in the meantime, please stop adding these 'references', you may have noticed there are many users here that revert these edits anyway. We are not a promotional website, we are writing an encyclopedia. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)