Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raphaël W.Pathé

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. —Centrx→talk • 08:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raphaël W.Pathé

Raphaël W.Pathé (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

non-notable actor. All roles mentioned are trivial at best, and neither google nor IMDB believe he appeared in them - at the very least his appearances are not enough to earn a credit for it. Closest claim to fame is as a minor presenter on a French tv show "Le Set". Fails WP:BIO. Contested speedy and prod. Creator and I have discussed this a bit at Talk:Raphaël Pathé. If deleted, the duplicate-article-turned-redirect Raphaël Pathé should go with it. Resolute 23:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


It seems the only source of informations the person who's requesting deletion uses is the WEB. A lot of information are not on the net yet , I believe that this is the whole point of Wikipedia : many things do happen out of the web, like at the theatre, in art galeries and museums like video art movies, magazines, Wikipedia was created to use the net in order to provide informations to net users on different subjects.

In the case of

Raphaël W.Pathé :

The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1 This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries2

The above is the central criteria for inclusion , according to the Bio Wiki rules.

The person who requests deletion was vandalised 17 times, maybe in this case this person should be a little more flexible, it appears that 17 other people have disagreeing with this person's statements.

Pink TV was the first Gay TV channel in Europe, people have been talking about it even in the US, everyone was talking about it in France, because it helped gay people to find their identity on TV after years of beein laughed at, and after beeing rejected always.

Raphaël W.Pathé helped a lot on the 2 years developping the Channel and then on the promotion of it. Every TV presenter of Pink TV are on WIKI, why removing one of them while keeping others ?

Same rules shoulds apply to everyone shouldn't they ? XfD (deletion) processes are not a way to complain or remove material that is personally disliked !

Regarding the IMDB sources, people should know that submitting a movie takes ages, it could take up to a year : Hillary Lloyds movies aren't on it yet because they are so busy with the work that they did not even reviewed it yet, but I am sure it will be soon. What really matters is that these movies did feature Raphaël W.Pathé as an actor, and that these movies have been shown to an audiance , movies had international press articles in notable British art magazines, it doesn't matter how long it takes for Google or Imdb to add the movie in the database.

For instance, a very famous actress like Romy Shneider does not even have a picture on IMDB... this proves what I am talking about.

Please be fair and stop the deletion process now. Nektaar TV —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nektaartv (talk • contribs).


  • Comment Please do not remove my comments as part of your edits, though the one you did remove I would not consider vandalism. To respond to your arguments, I first suggest that you read No personal attacks. And no, it is not a personal thing. I am not convinced that this individual satisfies WP:BIO, and I have yet to encounter any evidence otherwise. Particularly, there is no evidence that he has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works. The notability of PinkTV is irrelevent as I have not nominated it for deletion. The notability of Raphael Pathe is in question, and he needs to be able to stand on his own merit. Also, the "if you delete this article then you must delete all others" is not a strong argument. It merely suggests that there are other articles that require the attention of an AfD debate. Resolute 00:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

More important question is what knowledge in term of famous TV personalities do you have ? Are you personaly involved with the TV world ? Do you work with IMDB ? In what field do you usually work ? have you ever personnaly watched TV channels where Raphaël W.Pathé appeared as a TV presenter ? Did you ever watch the movies mentioned in the article about Raphaäl W.Pathé ?

Also, the "if you delete this article then you must delete all others" is not a strong argument :

it is a strong argument : it means that if people whom only notability includes working a TV presenter on PINK TV are judged suitable for featuring on WIKI therefore, Raphaël W.Pathé who did not only worked as a TV presenter on Pink TV but also appeared on many other medias such as press and cinema has to feature on WIKI too.

If Raphaël W.Pathé does not feature on WIkipedia, it means the WP:BIO means absolutely nothing and that the WP:BIO is only used in an arbitrary fashion. This would make WIKI a very unreliable source of information to the people don't you think ?

I am not convinced that this individual satisfies WP:BIO, and I have yet to encounter any evidence otherwise : this person should definately checked the links provided on the article page, but apparently this person has decided not to.. I really wonder why... this is crazy... to be fighting over nothing in the end.

Raphaël W.Pathé is known to the public, this is a fact , accept it or not ! And again : XfD (deletion) processes are not a way to complain or remove material that is personally disliked !

So if you don't like gay people or something, just say it, and we'll start a discussion on your talk page about homophobia, what do you think ?


I don't want to offend anyone, I am n ot mangling anyone. But again. It seems the only source of informations the persons who are requesting deletion use is the WEB. A lot of information are not on the net yet , I believe that this is the whole point of Wikipedia : many things do happen out of the web, like at the theatre, in art galeries and museums like video art movies, magazines, Wikipedia was created to use the net in order to provide informations to net users on different subjects; including informations that cannot be found anywhere else on the net !

In the case of

Raphaël W.Pathé :

The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1 This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries2

The above is the central criteria for inclusion , according to the Bio Wiki rules.

I personnaly bought magazines featuring Raphaël W.Pathé in the UK, but I don't know how to publish these pages on my WIKI page since i don't own these pages and these pictures, they come from the press, do I need to send these to the WIKI administrator via email ? Same with the copies of movies Raphaël W.Pathé appears ? This is possible and if it was possible to add video on wiki pages, I could add Raphaël W.Pathé's videos so everyone could see !

So if anyone tells me how to publish on the page the press articles and pictures that are evidence of his work, please let me know how to do it, then nobody will be able to say anything.

The Youtube section features a video of Raphaël W.Pathé presenting TV shows in French and English and featuring in a music video.

And in the end, Raphaël W.Pathé is on the imdb so he should be on the WIKI, this is a fact.

NektaarTV

    • Comment. (Please sign your posts with four tildes.) I understand that it is possible that someone has been covered in print media that does not have a web presence, but it is very rare for a currently notable person to be notable without having that reflected on the web somewhere. In the end, if they are notable, that proof of notability will appear eventually and then you can always appeal for deletion review to restore the article. For the time, I don't find evidence of notability. On this basic point, despite your protests, I think relying on web results is sufficient. Do note that IMDB's open submission policies mean that it is not a reliable indicator of notability. --Dhartung | Talk 21:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


But IMDB added Raphaël W.Pathé on the web, he did not ask for it : they added him because they thought it was needed. He isn't famous like Madonna for instance, but was Madonna so famous at first ? And now, would you consider Wiki without an article about Madonna ?

I am shocked to see that everyone from Pink TV was added and that Raphaël W.Pathé who's on TV on a regular basis and who's family created the cinema and the music industry cannot be added in the Wiki.... this isn't fair, apparently some people decide who's notable and who's not...

At least leave the picture and the Pink TV section, the picture has boon published already in different medias ( i own the rights no it) , be fair : everyone agrees about this notability.

This would be fair, at least ! And this whole conversation would have a meaning, for you all and for me.

thank you very much indeed for your undertstanding.

NektaarTV

My sister has an IMDb entry and she merely works set deck on movies and television shows. There is a reason why it is not considered a reliable source. Doubly so given you have already protested how unreliable IMDb is. I would also suggest that you are in a conflict of interest based on your recent comments. The decision on who is notable is based on established policy and guidelines. Specifically WP:BIO. This is why I nominated the article for deletion. It really does not appear that this individual has done much to be notable independent of his family at this point of his career. That, of course, is not to suggest that he wont at some point in the future. If he does, his article should return then. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Resolute 00:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC

Please remember that this talk page is not a place to talk about family and sisters....

Anyway, I have checked your profile, you don't seem to know a lot about Television and Cinema anyway, I don't think you are able to decide or not if the Raphaël W.Pathé's is notable or not, you don't even speak French how could you have had access to articles about him in France... According to your fields of knowledge, I see in my crystal ball that you are a TOOSHBIZ totally out of showbiz and that you deal better with so called by you "notable" political figures. Remember XfD (deletion) processes are not a way to complain or remove material that is personally disliked !

.... this article is needed, Raphaël W.Pathé is notable.... ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nektaartv (talk • contribs) 00:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment Nektaartv, I believe Resolute was using his sister as an example of why IMDb is not a reliable source, which makes it quite relevant. I also suggest that you avoid stating that other people are not sufficiently qualified to discuss articles on AfD; Wikipedia's policies/guidelines are rather universal and are applied to all sorts of fields. The same biographical guidelines for notability apply to people whether they be actors, political figures, or mathematicians. —ShadowHalo 04:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe the relevant source that can determine someone's notability are the audiance who watched the TV shows. And I agree yes, the same biographical guidelines for notability apply to people whether they be actors, political figures, or mathematics....here this doesn't seem to apply unfortunately.

Raphaël W.pathé does have a page on Wiki France, every one is fine about it, why is it such a problem on English Wiki ? Someone has to expalin ? are the notability policies different on Wiki English ?

NektaarTV

That article was created... two whole days ago (maybe less, depending on time zones). It links to one source: IMDB. And Wikipedia may not be used as a source for Wikipedia, that's a pretty firm rule. --Dhartung | Talk 18:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete From NektaarTV's comments, this person does not appear to be notable. General audience members certainly do not constitute reliable sources, which also makes me concerned about the verifiability. —ShadowHalo 21:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


I believe the relevant source that can determine someone's notability are the audiance who watched the TV shows. And I agree yes, the same biographical guidelines for notability apply to people whether they be actors, political figures, or mathematics....here this doesn't seem to apply unfortunately.

Raphaël W.pathé does have a page on Wiki France, every one is fine about it, why is it such a problem on English Wiki ? Someone has to expalin ? are the notability policies different on Wiki English ?

Raphaël W.Pathé :

The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1 This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries2

The above is the central criteria for inclusion , according to the Bio Wiki rules.

The person who requests deletion was vandalised 17 times, maybe in this case this person should be a little more flexible, it appears that 17 other people have disagreeing with this person's statements.

Pink TV was the first Gay TV channel in Europe, people have been talking about it even in the US, everyone was talking about it in France, because it helped gay people to find their identity on TV after years of beein laughed at, and after beeing rejected always.

Raphaël W.Pathé helped a lot on the 2 years developping the Channel and then on the promotion of it. Every TV presenter of Pink TV are on WIKI, why removing one of them while keeping others ?

Same rules shoulds apply to everyone shouldn't they ? XfD (deletion) processes are not a way to complain or remove material that is personally disliked !


In the end to be quite honest, I cannot even believe we are discussing this page ! Why do people spend so much energy just to destroy a page like this ! This is crazy ! Just by jaleousy ! If Charles pathé was still alive, he would be mad with the whole thing ! The Pathé family is notable, including anyone who holds the Pathé name and this is it, like Paris' Hilton is famous because 1 she comes from the Hilton family and 2 , because she too advantage of it by doing TV programs like simple life.

If people are upset because they do not have a name... this is one thing. Raphaël W.Pathé was already know in Paris anyway because of the name, and now he's known because of the movies Felix and Frederic and Slip Disco : he stared in it, the movies are made by artist Hilary Lloyds who's well known in England in art video and he's the main actor in these movies.

You know in the end, I am just bored of the whole thing, I am just thinking of copying and pasting this discussion and make an article about "how easy it is to make a page about some stupid soccer match in Canada, and how difficult it is to add a TV presenter Biography's of a TV host just because he worked on gay TV !

I don't even know who will decide in the end, but meanwhile I am copying all this converstion, becaue this is outrageaous really !

NektaarTV

Please calm down. First, there is no provision in Wikipedia policy for limiting who can express an opinion on an article's deletion. We are a general-interest encyclopedia, so the general readership is entitled to guide what content is appropriate. We're sorry that our policies do not extend to allowing people to have articles on them just because they do good things or the editors worked hard on them. There simply aren't any reliable sources that have been presented that show that M. Pathé/Wolff meets our guidelines for notability. That's all this is about. Please don't go looking for other motives, it is a violation of our good-faith assumption rule. --Dhartung | Talk 12:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Merge discussions should take place on the talk pages of the respective articles, rather than AfD. Not sure quite what this editor is up to, has a pattern of edits and behavior on random topics which make no sense —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rugbyball (talk • contribs) 18:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC).
    • Comment This isn't a merge discussion, this is a deletion discussion. At no point did I propose the article be merged. (point of fact, this individual already has a brief mention on Pathé, which is about all that can be said about this individual, as independent notability is still lacking). Resolute 19:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Further note: this user has been adding this exact message in several AfDs, it would appear the comments about "pattern of edits making no sense" itself is nonsense. Resolute 19:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Notice how one person who's primarily against the deletion has this and the article in question as edits for the most part. --Wizardman 06:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Clearly fails notability standards.--Beaker342 20:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Still i believe nobody really showed convincing arguments about Raphaël W.Pathé's article deletion. There is no real reason for the article to be removed. It should stay expecially since the whole world has had proof that Raphaël W.Pathé has been a TV presenter on Pink TV and had press articles making him notable as a TV presenter and expecially since his family brought everything to the movie industry. He's had pictures in the magazine, was featured in videoclips and movies, now maybe you don't wanna see the truth, but this is it !It's got to stay !

NektaarTV

And again about Raphaël W.Pathé :

The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1 This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries2

The above is the central criteria for inclusion , according to the Bio Wiki rules.

So respect your own rules !

NektaarTV

  • Delete One entry in IMDb, alongside literally dozens of other "pinksetters". The fact that he was in a video does not make him the subject of the video, which is what he's required to be to meet our notability standards. Redirecting would only encourage similar article creation and similar time spent processing AfDs. --DeLarge 23:30, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Being related to someone famous does not make one famous. Based on your problemmatic image uploads, Nektaar, you should review Wikipedia's copyright policies before you start criticizing others for their understanding of WP policy.--Beaker342 23:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.