Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Petri Suvanto

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Petri Suvanto

Petri Suvanto (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Fourteen year old kid who drives kart. Finnish youth champion. Participated at few international junior events, best result was winning a Scandinavian race. Not really "highest level" achievements. Let's delete this page. Time will tell whether there is reason to recreate it. Julius Sahara 08:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - fails WP:BIO. MER-C 08:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - not notable per WP:BIO. Let's wait until he actually wins some international racing events (and not junior one's). Jayden54 13:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per MER-C & Jayden54. He's no Michael Schumacher, yet. Budgiekiller 13:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - Looks to me as if he has won more than Scandinavian race, he is Finnish Junior Champion and if you follow the link against International Open Masters you can see that the races will be televised this year on RAI and Eurosport, and that the Championship is the virtual equivalent of the World Championship's. Following some research I also note that other sporting individuals who have achieved less than this guy have their Wikipedia entries allowed without question. I don't see how something interesting, factual and that is televised internationally should be removed at this stage. If he is the 'reigning' Finnish Junior Champion then there is probably interest in his career from important sources. If he doesnt deliver for a year then I agree it should be removed at that time but why be harsh on a young guy trying to achieve something and so far doing a good job? Mikedonlough 02:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• Note this was the first edit by this user. Julius Sahara 07:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• Open masters is in fact Italian championships. Furthermore, he drives KF3 (aka ICA Junior) class, which is clearly a third class category at Open Masters series [1]. Julius Sahara 07:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Wikipedia is not paper, notability can be open to interpretation, but this guy does seem to have some significant achievements, there are probably several articles on other people with equivalent achievements in other areas of human activity. PatGallacher 01:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• Your argument is flawed and is often used by article creators to justify notability of their article. There has to be sensible ways to determine importance (or lack of it) of each subject. When it comes to sports biographies, it is clear that the sportsperson in question has to compete at senior level. This racing driver has still years to reach it. He attends the KF3 class (for under-15's), which is, frankly, a children's class! More creditable karting classes, like KF1 (aka Formula A) and ICA (Intercontinental A) are also effectively junior classes since most drivers move to bigger vehicles (like Formula Ford or Formula BMW) immediately when they are allowed to do so. Furthermore, nothing implies this driver has outstanding achievements. In Europe alone, there are likely tenfolds of equally talented drivers of his age group. What if all of them would post autobiographies at Wikipedia? If Petri Suvanto matures into a famous driver, he will certainly have a page at Wikipedia. But this is not a crystal ball, he might fail as well. Julius Sahara 13:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
• Julius, with the greatest respect my specialist subject's are motor cycling and motor sport and particularly the junior levels which are often underrated by many people as being insignificant - having followed Junior levels of two and four wheels for over 30 years I have seen many stars (Including Schumacher, Raikkonen) rise from Junior categories which are extremely competitive and fought out at international level. Many of the 'children' you refer too are paid as professional's before reaching the higher level's. If I were the original poster Julius then I don't think I would have been as polite to you as I have, particularly when you use a put you down comment by saying that all this driver has done is won a few Scandinavian races when quite clearly he has and is in the continual process of achieving so much more than that. I am not here to argue the rights or wrongs for Wikipedia or this article because I am new and have never seen Petri Suvanto race but sometimes a fresh perspective can be worth a look at, if I am wrong then it will have been served as a lesson but at the same time I am very grateful to Wikipedia for allowing me the opportunity to cast my view and own opinion (after all that is one of the beauties of this site and on-line encyclopaedia). I would argue that the age of an athlete is not relevant to the level of professionalism or competitiveness or credibility of what he or she does with their profession OR to which Championship they compete in. In fact if they are children, then in a way they deserve more credit and encouragement for at least trying to achieve something at a young age. To finalise my message I would like to note the following reasons why in my opinion it seems appropriate for this particular article to remain:
  

1)Karting is most certainly not a Junior racing category, it has several drivers still racing (such as David Fore and Marco Ardigo) who raced against the likes of Schumacher, Trulli and Fisichella and they took the decision to remain in karting as professionally paid sportsmen which serves as a far better career than many hundreds of drivers in series Julius mentions such as Formula BMW and Formula Ford

2)I see that Petri Suvanto will race in Maranello team in 2007 and that his team-mate will be none other than 5 time Karting World Champion Davide Fore

3) He is Finnish Junior Champion; Finland is acknowledged as a nation which produces many stars. A couple of drivers who competed in this Championship and did NOT win it include Kimi Raikkonen and Heikki Kovalainen

4) Petri Suvanto's 2007 races will be shown on RAI Live Italian television with Live broadcasts simultaneously shown on Eurosport

5) Petri Suvanto is one of the favourites to win the KF3 title in 2007. Even if he wins just one of the races which is shown live on TV then there is a very good chance at least one Wikipedia user would like to refer to see if he can find out more on him

6) Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopaedia and one of the beauties of this is that the inclusion of this page is that it is not taking up unavailable space or preventing someone elses page appearing

7) For 2007 Suvanto's 'no longer' Italian Championship was awarded International status by the FIA (governing body to the Formula One World Championship) who have given permission for the series to be called the INTERNATIONAL Open Championship due to its mass international credibility throughout the world of motor sport. It was called the Italian Championship when Raikkonen, Schumacher, Montoya, Fisichella and Trulli competed in it but due to the overall success, interest and commercial viability of karting, the series has moved up a gear

8) Karting is recognised as one of the most exciting categories of motor sport that can be watched hence the high ratings and continued live coverage by RAI and the Eurosport TV channel

9) Despite being three years younger than the reigning Formula A European Champion (Michael Christensen), Petri Suvanto beat this driver as a twelve year old

10) Suvanto is a driver who has achieved great things as a youngster and is already moving on to the international platform that karting is recognised as. Why not be proud of representing a great achiever at such a tender age.

11) Anyone who understands motor sport knows that the Championship's hosted by the International Open Masters in 2007 are the equivalent of the World Championship's. There are many other Wikipedia entries that hold other Junior champions and achievers from all walks of life and sports in general. - Mikedonlough 21:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - Dear Wikipedia, as the original poster of this article I am not sure whether I am allowed a say in this area or not, but if I may reply then I would like too purely with facts and without biase: There are several reasons as to why I thought the inclusion of Petri Suvanto in Wikipedia was appropriate but without going into huge detail as someone has done above, I'd like to also mention in addition that this driver is coached by the same driver coach for Raikkonen, McLaren and RedBull. He is also legally represented by Macfarlanes who are the law firm to Sir Jackie Stewart and Red Bull F1 team and he is managed by Allstar International who have represented Nelson Piquet Junior and Antonio Pizzonia amongst others. He is also competing in an International series which is aired live on Eurosport, the leading Pan-European Sports channel reaching over 100 million households, 240 million viewers in 54 different countries plus RAI, the Italian channel. In 2007 he is also team mates with Davide Fore the five time karting World Champion. I will slightly update the entry to demonstrate these facts. In terms of article notability I hope I have satisfied this request by putting in over 20 links - if this is still not appropriate then please let me know and I will act accordingly to your request.

• Delete. I couldn't find any news sources that mention Petri Suvanto. -- Alan McBeth 02:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, fails WP:BIO -- Wikipedical 05:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - Found several news articles on this driver, has good/promising track record and prominent exposure coming in 2007 Granger Tovets

• User account created today. Petri Suvanto may be fairly promising driver, but Wikipedia is not a prediction league. Let alone a place to comment his tyre selections. Julius Sahara 23:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Another Red Card to Julius Sahara - not only with another put you down (without good reason) comment but by now criticising a new Wikipedian who has already offered more than one useful opinion in sports categories. At least the new users I have seen in this thread seem to be dealing with the facts instead of trying to paint the black tarnished picture that Sahara is intent on doing without any validity whatsoever. Please don't let this go unnoticed Wikipedia. For me, the facts of this driver speak for themselves. Mikedonlough 18:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.