Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Odessa Grady Clay
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Mangojuicetalk 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Odessa Grady Clay
Memorial. The only seemingly notable factor is that the subject is the mother of a notable person. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 21:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Comment Odessa Clay is just as notable as Rahman Ali her other son, whose article has been on here since 2003. She, like Rahman, supported Ali by sitting ringside at all his national and international bouts, stood by him through his conversion to Islam, etc. Also, the New York Times thought she was notable enough to give her an obituary. She has her own exhibit at the Muhammad Ali Center where she is listed as a 'notable African American' who influenced the life of Muhammad Ali. Sounds notable enough to warrant her own article, surely?[1] Jack1956 07:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- Just because an article has existed for a long time doesn't make it not subject to this same process; Rahman Ali may need to be submitted to Afd as well. The Ali Center is great, but only third parties can confer notability on Ali's mother, and the Ali Center is not a third party. Further, a mere obit doesn't confer notability, as it likely was published in deference to her highly notable son. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 16:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- The New York Times and other newspapers that wrote obituaries on her recognised that being the mother of one of the greatest iconic figures of the 20th century makes her notable also. The long list of secondary sources concerning her on, say, Google, also shows she is notable Jack1956 18:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep or merge to Muhammad Ali, per precedent with relatives of notable people. All of this information on her seems to be verifiable [2] so there's no real harm in the article... if there's enough information in print to accurately cover tangentially notable people, there's no real need to delete the article. Wikipedia is not paper after all. --W.marsh 21:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- By merge I mostly mean redirect, and make sure she's mentioned in the Muhammad Ali article. It's reasonable to think some people would search for her name. --W.marsh 21:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with a redirect and mention in the Muhammad Ali article, and the mention is already there. A separate article would, in effect, be declaring she is notable for something on her own accord, and unlimited space or not, that seems unusual. Just because Ali's mother is mentioned in news reports doesn't make her notable. All kinds of things are mentioned in news reports, but unless they have done something to become notable in an encyclopedic sense, we don't convert that news into encyclopedia format. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 21:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, over the years, notable in the encyclopedic sense has gradually become just that: sufficient sources to write a decent article. The biggest exception though is indeed biographies... merger/redirection is generally called for in "relative of someone notable" cases like this. But sometimes they do remain as standalone articles, e.g. Melinda Gates. --W.marsh 21:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Melinda Gates is a trustee of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and therefore notable in her own right. Corvus cornix 22:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, over the years, notable in the encyclopedic sense has gradually become just that: sufficient sources to write a decent article. The biggest exception though is indeed biographies... merger/redirection is generally called for in "relative of someone notable" cases like this. But sometimes they do remain as standalone articles, e.g. Melinda Gates. --W.marsh 21:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with a redirect and mention in the Muhammad Ali article, and the mention is already there. A separate article would, in effect, be declaring she is notable for something on her own accord, and unlimited space or not, that seems unusual. Just because Ali's mother is mentioned in news reports doesn't make her notable. All kinds of things are mentioned in news reports, but unless they have done something to become notable in an encyclopedic sense, we don't convert that news into encyclopedia format. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 21:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- By merge I mostly mean redirect, and make sure she's mentioned in the Muhammad Ali article. It's reasonable to think some people would search for her name. --W.marsh 21:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Merge back into the Ali article - Notability is not inherited Corpx 02:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- Merge to Muhammad Ali. No independent claims to notability. A third of the article is dedicated to her family tree, which in itself is a violation of WP:NOT#DIR. Caknuck 20:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
