Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katie Cleary

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete consensus and rebuttal of claims about meeting WP:BIO.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Katie Cleary

Katie Cleary (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Non-notable reality show losing contestant. Now one of the models on Deal or No Deal, but since that's a non-speaking role, I can't see how it could be construed as notable. Mikeblas 15:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all "reality" show losers. Guy (Help!) 15:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep According to her website[1], she's appeared in The Break-up and The Lakehouse, as a record producer on Las Vegas, a lawyer on Prison Break, a flight attendant on ER, and so I'm inclined to weigh that in as notable enough to make the cut. These may be minor roles, but combined with ANTM, DOND, and such, I'm inclined to weigh in her favor. FrozenPurpleCube 15:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. If she's acting, that might show notability. But we don't even know if she's had speaking roles. There are lots of nameless extras in movies and shows, and I don't think they're notable unless they're involved in the plot. Besides, there's no mention of these roles or their breadth in the article itself. -- Mikeblas 00:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, since I've not seen the movies/television shows in question, I don't know whether the parts were a speaking role or not. However, combined with her other work, but I think they give her enough of an edge that I'll go with the keep. Especially since it makes it hard to go with a redirect. FrozenPurpleCube 02:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"Not notable" plus "I dunno" does not equal "notable". -- Mikeblas 02:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you are only assuming "not notable" . However, she has reality show contestant, which is possible notability. Model, also a possible notability factor. I recognize that there are some ongoing arguments as to what constitutes notability in both things, but add in the screen parts, and she qualifies to me. FrozenPurpleCube 13:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There is ample precedent for the claim that a losing game show contestant is not notable, see Kari Schmidt AfD, Bre Scullark AfD, Catie Anderson AfD, Sarah Dankleman AfD, Tiffany Richardson AfD, Jayla Rubinelli AfD, Brooke Staricha AfD, and many more. And bit parts in TV and film have never been considered notable. Xtifr _tälk 04:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

But have any of those people gone on to anything else, like a DOND model, or roles in film and television? Been featured in Maxim Magazine? [2] It'd be one thing if she'd never done anything else, then I could support a redirect (and IMHO, all of thoe names above should be redirected), but having done other things, I'm reluctant to say anything but keep. FrozenPurpleCube 15:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there were others that had some trivial modeling or acting credits deleted, e.g. Catie Anderson (cited above, had bit parts on TV). Xtifr _tälk 00:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

PS, I'd put Katie Cleary well over Ingrid Vandebosch whose only claim to fame seems to be marrying Jeff Gordon. FrozenPurpleCube 16:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't guess how your PS is relevant. You can prod or AfD Ingrid's article if you don't think she's notable, and that has absolutely zero bearing on this debate. Meanwhile, I am indeed assuming not-notable; subjects on Wikipedia are not-notable until shown notable. -- Mikeblas 17:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Just thought I'd bring it up as an example where I think somebody wouldn't make the cut. Sometimes it helps to share one's position like that. Obviously, it didn't help you. Sorry. FrozenPurpleCube 21:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Edison 20:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Strong Delete being a losing game-show contestant confers no notability, and as an actor, she falls far short of the criteria in WP:BIO. Xtifr _tälk 01:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
  • What about "actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions?" --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Gee, you "conveniently" left out the first word, there, "Notable actors and...". And you completely ignored the following subsection which lists how notability should be determined. I see nothing to suggest that her career as an actor even begins to approach the criteria in WP:BIO. I have changed my vote from delete to strong delete after re-reviewing those criteria. Xtifr _tälk 04:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Reality show contestents are inherently notable, and this one is even moreso. Meets WP:BIO. --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

• The assertion that any class of person or object is "inherently notable" either implies a bar for notability which is so inclusive as to render the term meaningless, or is at odds with the primary notability criterion. Please cite some of the multiple non-trivial independent secondary sources of which this person has been the primary subject. Guy (Help!) 17:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nod Mad Jack 07:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete as per Xtifr. Highfructosecornsyrup 17:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom Rklawton 02:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.