Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katie Armiger (2nd nomination)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 14:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Katie Armiger
AfDs for this article:
procedural nomination A prior AFD action closed on 13 August with 'keep' as the outcome; 13 days after that close, the article was first nominated for speedy deletion by User:75.2.209.103 then PROD-nominated by User:WebHamster. The claim in the PROD-based re-nomination was "Lack of notability per WP:MUSIC." A couple of the reviewers in the last AFD recommended a period of time (ranging from 2 weeks to 3 months) to allow current events related to this singer to unfold, then rejudge the article. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 04:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment What is the Music Row Chart? Local Nashville maybe? Charting means the national chart to me, not a local promotional chart. I lean hard towards Delete. MarkBul 05:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Delete - Doesn't meet WP:MUSIC and isn't likely to for quite a while yet I'd say. Created by a SPA so it's either marketing or vanity, either way WP isn't AllMusic or MySSpace. If anyone has a large hook Sugarland, Texas is thattaway.--WebHamster 05:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. It has been decided shortly ago to keep the article, please don't start again deletion discussions and spend your time writing and improving articles instead. LHOON 07:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Keep for now, but only because this was tacitly agreed to in the first AfD, and enough time really hasn't passed yet. Having said that, I would normally vote for delete with the article as it is now, because notability has not been established yet per WP:MUSIC. The Chron articles help, though. Realkyhick 07:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Keep: Music Row is apparently a country music industry magazine and website. She appeared at the "CMA Music Fest" in June. She was featured in the Academy of Country Music's Tempo magazine. She's being played on American Airlines' in-flight radio system. Corvus cornix 16:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - Heaven forbid that a musician should be notable for their music skills and accomplishments rather than the skills and accomplishments of their PR machine. --WebHamster 16:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- I understand your feelings, WebHamster, but we can't judge talent, only notability, and unfortunately, notability is pretty much what the PR machine makes of it. Corvus cornix 17:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Actually I didn't mean talent per se, I meant accomplishments such as work output in the form of CDs, touring etc. A full catalogue and/or a full touring schedule are pretty independent forms of notability references as they can't be manipulated as easily as quantity of media coverage. After all the latter is rarely anything to do with the musician his/herself, it's either the press or the label/marketing team. To my mind 2 or 3 CDs says heaps more about an artist's notability (after all, someone has to buy the disks, if they are selling then they are reasonably notable) than a press release being faxed around the tabloids. With the advent of blogs, social networking and ten-a-penny media websites the value of gauging notability via press coverage is starting to become less and less all the time. Sooner or later everyone with access to iGarage and a web connection will become de facto notable based on some of the criteria in WP:MUSIC. Do we really want WP to become full of musos who are only famous for being famous rather than being notable musicians? --WebHamster 18:31, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- I understand your feelings, WebHamster, but we can't judge talent, only notability, and unfortunately, notability is pretty much what the PR machine makes of it. Corvus cornix 17:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- I somewhat agree with WebHamster that Ms. Armiger's got an impressive PR push behind her; when I opined towards deletion on the last discussion (and I'm surprised that was a keep, to be honest), I found a lot of press release reprints and comments on other artists' message boards that looked to be a search-engine influencing trick to push up hits. However, I think she's edging closer - but she still has one album out, isn't charting on national charts
(thus far in my search, the only confirmation she's on the Music Row charts is from some of her reps)(scratch that, it's on their website - my bad), and while there's local buzz, it doesn't seem to have broken out yet. I'm still a delete. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC) - Weak Keep - [1] This appears to be a non-trivial article that is not a PR spin or anything like that. Along with the music row article above, this seems to meet WP:Music criteria #1. I would vote delete if this was not there. - Spryde 22:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Speaking as someone who works for an independent record label, the way it works is the label (large or small) write up a list of places they want the CD to be seen, they then send a copy of the CD along with a press release to the music editor at the paper/website/magazine (fill in as appropriate). The lazy journos then concoct an article using the press release (sometimes a phone call is used to answer any questions not covered by the PR sheet) infomation. The article you quoted looks suspiciously like it was done just the way I describe. First rule of thumb, never believe a magazine article always allow your ears to be the judge. There's lots of stuff behind those reviews you never see, back scratching, bribes, adverts, politics, nepotism, buddies. Very rarely is there truth. They are there to make money, not to tell the average punter the truth. They tell them what they want them to hear or what they are paid to tell them to hear. This is why I am opposed to the press criteria in WP:MUSIC. It's too easily faked.--WebHamster 00:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. I am just pointing out a more reliable source. The Houston Chronicle is a pretty reliable source IMO but entertainment is always a touchy subject. I defer to your judgement. Spryde 00:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- Speaking as someone who works for an independent record label, the way it works is the label (large or small) write up a list of places they want the CD to be seen, they then send a copy of the CD along with a press release to the music editor at the paper/website/magazine (fill in as appropriate). The lazy journos then concoct an article using the press release (sometimes a phone call is used to answer any questions not covered by the PR sheet) infomation. The article you quoted looks suspiciously like it was done just the way I describe. First rule of thumb, never believe a magazine article always allow your ears to be the judge. There's lots of stuff behind those reviews you never see, back scratching, bribes, adverts, politics, nepotism, buddies. Very rarely is there truth. They are there to make money, not to tell the average punter the truth. They tell them what they want them to hear or what they are paid to tell them to hear. This is why I am opposed to the press criteria in WP:MUSIC. It's too easily faked.--WebHamster 00:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:MUSIC as she has recieved non trivial coverage in country music media publications. ALKIVAR™ ☢ 04:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
