Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Islam in Christian countries

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as OR POV fork. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 00:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islam in Christian countries

Islam in Christian countries (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

There are several reasons which I think show that this page should be deleted: What is a "Christian country"? Defining whether or not a country is a "Christian country" will require original research. Now, the article itself says "Traditionally Christian countries". But what the hell does that mean? Not only does that change the topic of the article, it again requires original research. We already have Islam in the United States, Islam by country, et. al. This article's intention seems to be a point of view fork. And finally, Why is some of the article about Christians in Muslim countries? Again, that reeks of point of view forkingDelete. Thank you. Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 00:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletions. -- Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 00:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep the article needs to be cleaned up, but the topic is interesting. Rather than presenting info about Muslims in individual countries this is a more general article on the situation of Islam and its followers in Christian countries. Of course the definition of a Christian country can be subjective, but arbitrary parameters, such as a Christian majority can be used. TSO1D 01:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. However, the problem is that there is no general situation of Islam in Christian countries. There is no specific decree in Islam that deals with Islam in Christian countries. There could be an article titled Muslims living in Dar al-Dawa, with differing Muslim interpretations about how to live in societies that do not have Muslim majorities. Please see Divisions of the world in Islam. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 01:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep WP:INTERESTING aside, this article seems to have more sources than most, and trends regarding major shifts in religious ethnography sounds inherently notable. I agree that a slight title change might be a good idea (How about "Islam in Historically Christian-Majority Countries"?) since the title suggests that it might only apply to Christian theocracies. Question: why is the factual accuracy of the article in dispute?

Yes, I agree that this is an inherently notable subject. However, that is not why I nominated it for deletion. I am worrying that this is a pov fork, given that its content can already be fully explained in other articles. Also, I did not put the factual accuracy tag, but according to the talk page, it seems to be placed based on a controversy surrounding the number of Arabs vs the number of Muslims in the United States. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 02:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, and also due to the fact we already have Islam in the United Kingdom, Islam in the United States, Islam in Europe, if that is what is meant by "Christian countries". i would opine inserting any salvagable material from here into Demographics of Islam, Islam by country, or into the other aforementioned articles. ITAQALLAH 15:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I think its a POV topic. We have to define what is indeed a christian country. We already have articles related to all the countries individually and do not feel any need to create this new article whose topic itself is not right/clear. One could create then Islam in Non-Christian countries and so on... Does not look useful ....--- ALM 16:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
• CommentIf kept, the name should be "Islam in predominantly Christian countries", I think. It does seem redundant with several other articles, though.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Would you support the creation of an article entitled "Islam in predominately non-Christian countries"? Why should Christianity be used as the primary qualification? --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 00:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

You'll notice I didn't vote to keep or delete one way or another, and said the article was redundant with several other articles. I was merely suggesting a more accurate name if this ended up being kept, thank you.--Cúchullain ^t/c 02:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

But as a member of Wikipedia with the potential to make future edits to the outcome of this article, I think it is important for your position on the matter to be fully explained. You can have neither a keep nor a delete vote, that's your privilege. But you failed to address my question, which was why you think that "Islam in predominantly Christian countries" would be an appropriate title for an article. Again I ask, why should Christianity be used as the primary qualification? Would you support "Islam in non-Christian countries", "Hinduism in Christian countries", "Hinduism in non-Christian countries", "Christianity in Christian countries", "Christianity in non-Christian countries"? Thanks. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 02:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

You read way to much into what I said. I only proposed "predominantly Christian countries" as a substitute for "Christian countries" in the event the article is kept. It is a better title in that it doesn't imply the countries discussed are Christian officially or rightfully, only that its citizens are "predominantly Christian". For instance, most citizens of the United States are Christian, but the country has no official religion, and Muslim Americans are not any less American because of their faith. I really don't see how you interpret what I said to mean I would "support" "Islam in non-Christian countries" or "Hinduism in Christian countries", etc, any more than I "support" this article. A much better analogy would be "Christianity in predominantly Islamic countries" or "Hinduism in predominantly Islamic countries" (note the predominantly, the only thing I actually suggested). "Predominantly Christian countries" is only appropriate because the article is discussing predominantly Christian countries. Whether this is a useful topic is a different question; I already expressed my feelings on this in my first comment.--Cúchullain ^t/c 03:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - what is a Christian country ? Bakaman 23:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but rename to something like Islam outside of the Muslim World. Also needs to be cleaned up. --Duke of Duchess Street 03:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, NPOV definition of 'Christian country' virtually impossible. The Christian world is not monolithic, no useful (for this subject) common denominator between say Serbia and the Philippines. --Soman 15:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Wrong title (there is whole Category:Islam by country), the text is rather low on actual facts and events. I would also accept thorough cleanup, though. Pavel Vozenilek 03:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete As per above. Redundant considering several articles exist covering Islam in predominantly Christian countries. The phrase "Christian countries" implies some ignorance on the part of the author when one considers that most of the "Christian countries" named in the article are actually secular democracies. The title is POV,the content seems somewhat POV-driven, and the content overall shows poor research. Falcon2020 17:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. WP:OR in spades. Morton devonshire 03:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Strothra 14:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.