Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ian Ayres

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete due to multiple keep votes from a reasonably new editor. —Xyrael / 07:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ian Ayres

Non-notable poet, author, and film producer whose self-published books have Amazon sales ranks in the millions. No reliable sources given or likely to be found. Delete --Huon 20:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I also nominate Ayres' publication, Van Gogh's Ear: Best World Poetry & Prose, which gives less than 10 Google hits, and his company, French Connection Films, which fails WP:CORP, both by the same author. The combination gives an impression of advertisement and/or vanity. --Huon 20:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Van Gogh's Ear: Best World Poetry & Prose

• Keep Van Gogh's Ear. Given the contributors' list claimed, Van Gogh's Ear seems a potentially notable small-press publication. No opinion on the other two. Espresso Addict 22:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Van Gogh's Ear should stay. Over 100 Van Gogh's Ear: Best World Poetry & Prose Google hits came up on a more thorough search. The contributors' list does prove that Van Gogh's Ear is an important publication. --Jimmy Russell 22:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete both per nom. We have no proof that this laundry list of celebrities isn't a hoax, or at least an exaggeration. Besides, calling them "contributors" is disingenuous: I don't believe that Marilyn Monroe, Charles Manson, James Dean or the Marquis DeSade knowingly contributed to this zine. You'd be surprised how easy it is for any low-budget zine to get permission to run excerpts of writings by famous authors. wikipediatrix 03:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
• Proof can be made to keep Van Gogh's Ear. The list of celebrities is accurate, and not at all an exaggeration. Contact the estates of Keith Haring, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, and the estates of others listed who are no longer living and they will provide proof. Same for the living, who are 97% of the contributors. Charles Manson's letter was sent from prison, addressed to Van Gogh's Ear, and a scan of it appears in the book to prove its validity. Van Gogh's Ear is a respected anthology. It is distributed by major distributors in the United States, Canada, Europe, South Africa, and Australia. I've taken the time to research the facts. Jimmy Russell 03:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Jimmy Russell, whose only contributions have been to AfDs about his articles/to the articles themselves, has also created Van Gogh's Ear. For now, I abstain. --Wafulz 15:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
• Explanation. I am new at Wikipedia and had initially made a mistake in putting "Best World Poetry & Prose" as part of the Van Gogh's Ear title. Upon learning my mistake I couldn't figure out how to correct the title right away, so just did a new page with the correct title. Could I have counted on someone else to have corrected the title? I have put the AfD notice with this link on the correct page for Van Gogh's Ear. I guess I did a better job with my page for Steve Algozino. --Jimmy Russell 15:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete No sources provided for establishment of notability or verifiability. Twenty-eight google hits once all the irrelevant, non-related, stuff is filtered out. Non-Notable Brian 16:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)btball

• Delete along with a number of other non-notable poetry anthologies still uncontested on Wikipedia that are of lesser importance, with less than 10 Google hits, neither reviews nor honors. Research and compare. --Jimmy Russell 16:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep both all authors and books are notable --Kitia 16:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Actually, that's not what the guidelines say. For authors it says "Published authors, editors and photographers who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work" and there's no evidence of that here. See also Wikipedia:Notability (books) Brian 16:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)btball
• Question: What about the received honors and reviews of the notable poets/authors published in a collection? Don't they count? --Jimmy Russell 17:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

That's not how it works. wikipediatrix 19:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

It's good that Wikipedia judges collections by the merits of the poets and authors they contain instead of the other way around. And Van Gogh's Ear does have more importance than some of the other poetry anthologies already approved on Wikipedia. References, book reviews, honors, etc. will soon be posted. --Jimmy Russell 20:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

So, uh, why did you vote "Delete" above?? And why did you blank out the French Connection Films article? [1] Blanking out an article, even if it's one you created, constitutes vandalism. wikipediatrix 00:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Change of opinion: The three articles I nominated developed quite differently.

1. Ian Ayres by now is about another Ian Ayres who is unrelated to the poet (and, to me, looks notable enough). Thus, speedy keep seems to be the way to go.
2. French Connection Films has been blanked by the author and sole contributor. To me, that's not vandalism; rather, it can be speedy deleted by criterion G7: Author's request.
3. Van Gogh's Ear (Van Gogh's Ear: Best World Poetry & Prose was turned into a redirect) by now seems to be in slightly above-average shape for anthologies of modern poetry. It could, of course, do with some more sources, but they may be found. Since at least some of the contributions are originally published in Van Gogh's Ear (and not just reprints), I'll change my opinion on this one to weak keep. --Huon 09:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

.

• Delete Van Gogh's Ear - notability not demonstrated. BlueValour 04:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
• Ian Ayres is a problem. We have an article on a poet, an AfD, and within 24 hours, with no explanation, a detailed article on another Ian Ayres appears. What's going on? Certainly the old Ian Ayres needs deleting from the history while the new one does seem notable; so -
• Delete Old Ian Ayres from history.
• Keep New Ian Ayres. BlueValour 04:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Van Gogh's Ear - notability being demonstrated. Jimmy Russell 05:18, 31 August 2006

Um, this is the third or fourth time you have "voted". wikipediatrix 18:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I wish some of the other anthologies already accepted on Wikipedia would be compared. It's obvious Van Gogh's Ear belongs as much as--if not more than--they do. And notability is being demonstrated. Many more references and citations are available. Jimmy Russell 19:48, 31 August 2006

• WTF. Article on Ian Ayres is about an economist, not a poet. What is going on here? Herostratus

As you might have seen in the history (or by reading my comment above), Ian Ayres was rewritten entirely since being nominated for deletion. --Huon 18:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.