Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helgason Asgeir

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete. W.marsh 05:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helgason Asgeir

  • Delete Contested prod without reason. pubmed.gov gives him 33 citations as a co-author this means his body of work is nothing very much--Porturology 11:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Helgason has over 40 peer reviwed articles published. Some listed as Helgason AR and some as Helgason A. He is first or last (correspondin) author of the majority of these papers. Additional workes include clinical papers and book chapters.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Harald fair hair (talk • contribs)
  • Comment Thats how many I have and I am a country clinician. It is not enough to be a notable medical scientist--Porturology 11:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
    • OK, state your name so that people will bw able to compare your works with Helgason.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Harald fair hair (talk • contribs)
  • Comment I have not been put up as a candidate for inclusion in an on-line encyclopedia (not a list of academics mind you, but an encyclopedia). I would be as embarrassed as your boss apparently is, if one of my registrars made an entry on my behalf.
However from my web-name, you can tell that I am a urologist and as a 'radical prostate cynic' I have read a lot of literature on cancer of the prostate and the complications of its treatment. At present your article does not say Helgason's age, qualifications, area of interest (e.g public health, surgery or social work), rank or position at the Karolinska.
All we have established is that he has about 40 citations and 33 of these are listed at pubmed. Reviewing these he is the first or last author of 14 and about 10 are in international, first rate journals.This compares with Walsh, Pat (I bet this comes out red) who has over 500 citations mostly in J Urol.
Interestingly the most important articles in the treatment of prostate cancer in the last 5 years have come from Sweden e.g.(N Engl J Med. 2005 May 12;352(19):1977-84).These articles have multiple authors but Helgason is not one of them.
In short I believe I am in a position to know who the major workers in Prostate cancer are and Helgason is not one of them.
By the way, Helgason's papers are usually co-authored by 5 or 6 - is it your intention to write vanity pieces about all of them? --Porturology 04:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Does not appear to be more noteworthy than than the average university professor (see WP:BIO). Wikipedia is not PubMed. Additional evidence of notariety outside PubMed might change my mind, such as if he has been quoted (more than once) in newspaper stories as an expert about his field. Institutions are often anxious to promote their research for fundraising purposes or to raise their standing in terms of recruiting students and faculty, and issue press releases that may or may not be picked up by the local press. I searched the website of the Karolinska Institutet (English version) and did not find any press releases about his work. Note that if the article is kept it needs to be moved to Asgeir Helgason. Backwards talking wikipedia is not. Also may be a violation of WP:Vanity. Note that the article has 3 editors whose only edits have been to this article, its 3 redirect pages, or adding links to articles in his field of research. Thatcher131 12:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Helgason has been widely quoted in the national Swedish press (newspapers DN, Afronbladet, SvD, and TV4, Tv3, SVT) and in Icelandic press (Mbl, National TV and Stod2), as well as in several other media (e.g. The European). These media have accessed Helgasons papers without the help of the Karolinska Institutet.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.10.63.101 (talk • contribs) --this is an IP address at Karolinska University Hospital.
  • Keep the guy is notable and probably somewhat visible in Scandinavia. He's a prominent researcher who has done apparently-prominent research. As for the passionate Helgason supporter watching over this AfD: why not add a few external links for verification, notability-establishment, and general usefulness? Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 13:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Helgasons work has had substantial impact in the field of treatment for localized prostate cancer in Scandinavia. His contribution has been to highlight the importance of quality of life aspects after treatment (e.g. impotence, urinary leakage) and bring to light that a substantial number of prostate cancer patients are emotionally isolated in spite of present psychosocial support, indicating that psychosocial services need to be adjusted for the needs of men. Obs! "Kveldulfur" and "Harald fair hair" work in the same department as Helgason and are well acquainted with his work.—This unsigned comment was added by Kveldulfur (talk • contribs) and later modified by 193.10.63.101 (talk · contribs)
    • Please read the warning about sockpuppets. Harald fair hair (talk · contribs) and Kveldulfur (talk · contribs) are two of the main editors of Helgason's article, and the linkspamming involving him. The third editor, 81.170.128.26 (talk · contribs) is a Stockholm IP address, and 193.10.63.101 (talk · contribs) is from the Karolinska Institut (where Dr. Helgason seems to work). I was willing to assume good faith that the anonymous edits were simple forgetfulness until this comment from Kveldulfur shows that he knows how to log in. Using multiple accounts in an attempt to influence debate is grounds for being blocked from editing Wikipedia and will not help you win the consensus opinion you need. Thanks for understanding. Thatcher131 13:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment from Asgeir R. Helgason: It has come to my attention that PhD students at the department have been trying to get me published on this internet cite. Although their information is basically correct I find it of questionable ethics to publish people’s names and work on the internet without consent. I have lectured them on that and asked them to stop. If people want to communicate about my works and possible influence on clinical practice I would prefer that they communicate with me directly. My e-mail is: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.44.242.18 (talk • contribs) 192.44.242.18 14:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Is this a University based webb cite?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.44.242.18 (talk • contribs)
      • Wikipedia is "The free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." See Wikipedia for a history. It's a continuously updated, peer-reviewed compendium of knowledge that strives for encyclopedic style and content. It is a world-wide endeavor with over 1 million articles so far. Click on main page on the left-hand side and take a look around. Thatcher131 14:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Removed email per policy. Sorry to have to do it but it is for your protection Nigelthefish 18:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, notability established. "Average university professor" test is neither policy nor guideline, and parallel test not applied to actors, writers, pro athletes, etc ad nauseum, and indicates a perverse bias against knowledge workers. Monicasdude 14:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Wow. That's the most interesting AfD discussion I've read in a while. Still, I think that Prof. Helgason is not notable enough for a wikipedia article, so delete. Bucketsofg 15:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd like to say "keep", but so far I haven't seen anything that would distinguish this individual from millions of other scientists in the world. One significant national or international media citation would do it. But until then I have to say delete. GeorgeStepanek\talk 04:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
    • The references (below) are good enough for me. I've changed my vote to keep. GeorgeStepanek\talk 10:53, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Published researcher. One co-authored paper would be enough, let alone 33. Proto||type 12:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
    • The appropriate guideline isThe professor test and I argue that he clearly fails this.--Porturology 04:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Seems to meet Criteria 3. JoshuaZ 04:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Mate, 40 papers - mostly in second rate journals - is a pretty low score for a full time academic--Porturology 04:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. This person is well known (at least in the Nordic countries) for his work on quit smoking. I am no scientist and have no information on his scientific work but he his often cited in newspapers and TV at least here in Sweden. He is for example responsible for establishing the Swedish quitline for smokers which is a well known service in this country. Knut 18:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)—User's only edit is to this page (talk • contribs)
    • Then please show us a Swedish newspaper citation. GeorgeStepanek\talk 22:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

*Keep per Bobby and Knut. JoshuaZ 18:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC) *Delete per Porturology. JoshuaZ 06:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment. GeorgeStepanek asked for links to examples of newspapers citations to Helgason. Here are two examples of citations to Helgasons work in the two largest Swedish newspapers Dagens Nyheter (an article on Helgasons tobacco prevention work [1]) and Svenska Dagbladet (an article on Helgasons work on prostate cancer men and emotional isolation [2]). Knut 10:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
    • OK, I've changed my vote—but you still can't vote twice! GeorgeStepanek\talk 10:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

COMMENT 2: There appears to be some miss understanding by someone called Porturology that Helgason is urologist. As far as I can see from Swedish publications Helgason is no urologist. He (I think) is psychologist and public health scientist. He is involved in several aspects of health including psychological effect off treatment for different cancers and tobacco prevention. For me he is best known for his work in stop smoking services but I can recall front page articles in Sweden’s biggest newspapers (and TV) some years ago on his studies regarding sexual interest of old men and how treatment for prostate cancer could ruin men’s life since they became impotent etc. I tried to find these articles but they seem not still to be on the internet. However I did find many media articles links (directly to newspaper articles) from Sweden and other Nordic countries that are still available on the internet for Helgason. Most are on his work in tobacco and emotional problems for men with prostate cancer. I my view Helgason is outstanding for his clinical impact on so different fields = tobacco cessation, impotence, quality of life, prostate cancer, emotional problems, care of dying patients and their spouses etc.. In Sweden there are few people with this wide spectrum of impact. Also I looked at his over scientific publications (some were helgason a and some helgason ar) and as I can see they are more the 50? I did not know that he also was doing research in getetics in Iceland. This is what I found just now as links to on line newspaper articles on Swedish search engines. I tried to explain in English what each article is about:

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/idag/did_9739365.asp (Svenska Dagbladet on prostate cancer and emotional isolation)

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=597&a=343773 (Dagens Nyheter on Helgasons tobacco prevention work)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0003/28/roka.html (Aftonbladet on the Swedish quitline)

http://www.systembolaget.se/AlkoholHalsa/Alkoholsamhalle/alkohol_nikotin_rokning.htm (In Sweden the state has monopoly on selling alcohol. This is the alcohol monopoly newspaper interviewing Helgason on his work with the Swedish smoking quitline and his plans to start a similar service for risk drinkers)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/halsa/story/0,2789,280431,00.html (Aftonbladet on oral tobacco and cancer)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/telegram/0,1082,437113_INR__,00.html (Aftonbladet on men and emotional isolation)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/telegram/0,1082,437113_INR_p_,00.html (Aftonbladet on emotional isolation)

http://www.mbl.is/mm/gagnasafn/tengdar.html?docid=1795132 (Several Icelandic articles in Morgunbladid – paid access only)

http://www.mbl.is/mm/gagnasafn/grein.html?grein_id=515846 (On the Icelandic tobacco quitline)

http://www.affarsvarlden.se/art/34033 (Affärsvärlden on oral tobacco)

http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=6363508 (The Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang = VG on oral tobacco as smoking cessation)

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/helse/article303547.ece (Norwegian Nettavisen on oral tobacco)

http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/Inrikes/did_2817840.asp (Svenska Dagbladet on the possibility do develop vaccine for nicotine dependence) Knut Knut 21:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment I have alittle difficulty with your posting. This is your first and so far only contribution with Wp. You pretend disinterest in the subject (e.g.you are not sure what his qualifications or profession is) but you then are able to quote numerous news clippings in which he is mentioned. This has many of the signs of sock-puppetry.--Porturology 06:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't think you read Porturology's comments very well. It is not that he believes Dr. Helgason is a urologist, but that as a urologist himself, he has a more expert perspective on the significance of Dr. Helgaon's research. Generally the most important authors to a scientific paper are listed first or last; of Dr. Helgason's approx. 50 publications, only 14 list him as first or last author. This is an indication of a respectable career, but is not (in my mind) evidence that he is important enough to list in an encyclopedia. He may in fact be more important within Iceland/Scandanavia than his publication record suggests to some of us. You are free to try and improve the article during the debate if you wish. Explain the context and significance of his research within Iceland or Scandanavia and include references to significant national newspapers that quote him regarding his research.Thatcher131 05:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't feel that someone necessarily needs to be a notable researcher to be a notable scientist. The newspaper references provided show Dr. Helgason to be a well-known as a populariser and/or a media figure. Knut has given us more than enough to satisfy WP:BIO: "the individual is more well known ... than an average college professor." He certainly satisfies The professor test: "an academic repeatedly quoted in newspapers or newsmagazines." GeorgeStepanek\talk 06:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you User:Thatcher 131 You have admirably expressed my opinion. One of Helgason's main interests is the complications of treatment of Cancer of the Prostate. I know this literature very well and Helgason with <10 articles, of which he is the prime author, in first class journals is no where near being an internationally noted expert in this field. I am surprised he has not personally intervened in this debate as it must be terribly embarrasing for him.--Porturology 06:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

MERCY MY FRIENDS: When I opened my e-mail this morning I had received mail from a person drawing my attention to an ongoing debate on this internet cite regarding my works and my person. After having scanned through what has been written (since I sent in my comment and asked people to stop) I feel I have to commend on some of the things stated in this strange debate:

1)In my previous mail I published my e-mail address so that people could communicate with me directly. I am therefore a little surprised that “Porturology” did not write directly to me with his questions. And “Porturology” you are right, this is a little embarrassing for me but also amusing. Makes you feel like a PhD student defending a thesis. Unfortunately I have other things to do than to follow debates on the internet. I actually though I had put a stop to the debate with my previous comment.

2) Nordic/Scandinavian people do not like to discuss their own work. It is considered to be inappropriate (especially in Sweden)to sell your self in any way. I know this is somewhat different in other countries but there you go! Different behaviour protocols in different parts of the world is what makes the world interesting.

3) When I did my PhD in 1997 on prostate cancer it received a lot of media attention. Probably not because it was a good work of science. Probably mainly because it dealt with subjects of media interest like sexual functioning, and the dilemma of trade-off between intact sexual function and curative treatment for localized prostate cancer. Also, it included a population based epidemiological study on male sexual functioning in men without prostate cancer up to 80 years that was considered to be relatively representative owing to a fair response rate. Also. at the time there was a heated debate in Scandinavia (and still is) on whether or not to treat localized prostate cancer with curative intent in if so what treatment to choose. So I became the victim of circumstances. My interest in the prostate cancer debate (treat or not to treat) diminished after I realized that there is a lot of politics and money involved and strong lobby groups primarily interested in selling them selves and their products. After that my work in the field has mainly been on emotional isolation of middle aged men and prostate cancer patients. However, emotional isolation in men is a also a typical media subject. So the bottom line is that my work in the area of prostate cancer has probably had this impact in the media owing to the nature of the subject. This media attention is troublesome since it takes up lots of time an energy and is nothing to strive for.

4)I thank “Knut” for his (her?) interest in my work (thanks for these links). However, I need to correct him/her on one aspect. My works on medical and psychological databases are unfortunately presented under both Helgason AR and Helgason A. This often leads to some confusion since my brothers name is Agnar Helgason and he also publishes under Helgason A. Articles on genetics published under Helgason A. are my brothers articles, not mine. I know less about genetics than an average chimpanzee. Sorry if I disappointed you on that.

5)I do not fully understand the focus on my prostate cancer research in this ongoing debate on my work. The fact is that my work on tobacco prevention and in particular smoking cessation (both clinical, educational and scientific) far outweighs my work in prostate cancer at the moment. I have PhD students in health psychology in two different departments at the Karolinska = public health sciences and oncology and presently my work in smoking cessation takes up 75% of my time. Presently we are e.g. developing a telephone based service for risk drinkers based on our experience of running a smoking cessation quitline from 1998. These services are free of charge and rigorously evaluated. In oncology my PhD students (at the moment)are mainly doing work in palliative care. So please “User:Porturology” and others cool down the prostate cancer debate.

6) I do not understand why people do not use their real names in debates like this? It is much more interesting to know who you are talking to. Is this some kind of policy on the Wikipedia?

Asgeir R. Helgason (asgeir.helgason@sll.se) Asgeir Helgason

  • Keep the article might grow. --Tone 13:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Notable researcher. And thanks for amusing me everyone. Nigelthefish 18:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.