Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Goldfish swallowing

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn. It is clear to me that the community likes this article and wants to keep it. It is unfortunate that it will only continue to deteriorate into a gigantic repository of trivia over the next several months, and never become a real comprehensive encyclopedic article. Revisit this in 6 months and prove me wrong. Burntsauce 16:50, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goldfish swallowing

Suggest deletion of this trivial fad. Sources consist of a letter (not an article, a letter) to The New York Times and a puerile filler piece from Time Magazine. There is nothing notable or encyclopedic to be seen here. Burntsauce 22:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy keep, well-known fad of the 1930s, Time magazine is a reliable source whether or not you think it's "puerile". NawlinWiki 22:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Please cite evidence of this being a well-known fad, as the Time magazine does not imply that is, puerile or not. Burntsauce 22:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Here's a link to "College Fads" in Benjamin Griffith, The St. James Encyclopedia of Popular Culture, describing goldfish swallowing as an "iconic marker" of the 1930s. NawlinWiki 23:14, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy keep per NawlinWiki. <offtopic> And by the way, this is my 1500th edit! =) </offtopic> NASCAR Fan24^{(radio me!)} 22:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment — the Time article can be found here. I'll add it to the article now. --Agüeybaná 22:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Plenty of sources [1] [2] I know some may argue that one of those may not be credible, but it only confirms what is already given as reliable sources in the article itself. Yngvarr (t) (c) 22:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, well-known and well-documented fad. Corvus cornix 22:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Just checked google, found out that a church seems to have stopped practicing it. [3]. Freaky but notable. --Lenticel ^(talk) 22:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. None of these so-called speedy keeps are valid. Once you remove the unfounded speculation and editorializing from the article, you are left with a sentence that says "Goldfish swallowing was a college fad of the late 1930's, consisting of exactly what its name implies." As much as that may bring a smile to your face and make you giggle, an encyclopedic article it is not. Burntsauce 22:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • That's not a deletion criterion. It's well known and it's documented. The article right now is a mess, but it can be improved. Corvus cornix 23:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. There may not be much to say about it, though a little expansion on the origin, history, and decline would definitely be useful, but it is a notable and real fad and the sort of thing I can see wanting to look up. —Quasirandom 23:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per above. A bit more historical than Fart lighting, despite the analogy. Mandsford 23:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete we already have an article on swallowing. we already have an article on goldfish. the fact you can do one with the other is not something we need an article for.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 00:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• We have articles on George, on W, and on bush too. Mandsford 15:38, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable - added ref suggested by User:Lenticel. More info is available at [4]. Hal peridol 00:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Weak keep, at least one reliable source has been added, I'm sure there're plenty more. This is a fad that's been around for decades, and a very well-known fad at that. I would argue a solid keep but I'm not entirely sure on how this can be expanded to more than a stub. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 00:08, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per the arguments above. I've added the St. James Encyclopedia of Popular Culture article that NawlinWiki found to the article's external links. Deor 00:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep This college fad of the 1930's received substantial coverage in multiple independent sources, satisfying WP:N. Most of the stories are behing the paywall, but a visit to many libraries can retrieve them free via Proquest. See a 242 word article about it the New York Times, March 31, 1939,[5], a 285 word story , same paper, April 1, 1939 [6] . See "A Panorama of American Life Between Two World Wars; I REMEMBER..." New York Times - Sep 7, 1947, which includes the phrase "... But the evidence given here indicates that even goldfish swallowing was A non-typical aberration." per [7]. In that same search note "Find Gold Fish Gulping Had Early Predecessor," New York Times - Apr 23, 1939 which includes "The idea of eating phonograph records, The new high in the current college "Gold Fish" swallowing fad, was anticipated thirty-six years ago by a British...;" see "MORAL BREAKDOWN AT COLLEGES DENIED; Survey Shows Educators Call...New York Times - Jan 13, 1950 which includes "Dr. Waiters remarked 'that I'd say that the old collegiate rah-rah goldfish swallowing days are over. Students pay more attention to campus civ.." A perspective several years after the fad which shows it was notable is "Ate Goldfish, Now Directs Radio Work" in the Hartford Courant - ProQuest Archiver - Oct 13, 1947A, which says "...college student who gained national fame eight years ago as "living aquarium" after swallowing 42 live Goldfish today is A West Hartford Radio executive." A judgement of "national fame" is strong support for the notability of the fad. From Google Books, search 1920-1950 see [8]. It was used in Nazi propaganda to show American decadance "Comic Books--municipal Control of Sale and Distribution--a Preliminary Study ...by Charles S. Rhyne, University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign campus). Institute of Communications Research, Wilbur Lang Schramm - 1948 - 16 pages: "Goebbels, for example, used our newsreel shots of lynching, goldfish swallowing, flag-pole sitting, etc., to show the decadence of American civilization." from same Google Books search. Edison 03:30, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Per numerous citations of popularity, and Nawlinswiki's assertions. ThuranX 03:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep and improve the article if it needs it. Covering popular culture is well within the remit of Wikipedia and something it generally does rather well, even if it's beneath the standards of certain editors. (And how unfortunate that Goebbels had lynching to hold against us in the first place, let alone equate with this.) --Dhartung | Talk 09:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Also, Edison's links really need to be added. Turlo Lomon 09:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.