Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erik Eastaugh (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete, whether debate is sport is (ugh) debatable, but given that no other individual winner (term loosely used because according to the article the school is the winner and this guy was a member of the debating team that did win for that school, but I digress) of these championships has an article indicates that the current viewpoint is these winners aren't notable per se and that's this guy's claim to fame. Carlossuarez46 23:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erik Eastaugh

Erik Eastaugh (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

delete- I move we delete Erik Eastaughs page, we can't have pages for the hundreds of winners of worldwide contended debating comps. Jembot99 15:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Delete for lack of substantial independent sources. -- Sethacus 18:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. The World University Debating Championships is notable. I think it might even fit the amateur competition at highest level requirement for sports. DGG (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
  • comment- where do you draw the line? World Schools and Worlds alone have about 150 winners who would need pahes. Then arguments could be made for winners of all the major competitions, like Australasians, All-Asians, etc, which are vastly larger than World Schools. Add in the best speakers for these comps too, and you're starting to look at a real large number of pages for "professional debaters"...JJJ999 19:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment Debating is a sport?!--Sethacus 20:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Oh, I think debating is a sport, it's just not nearly important enough. I mean, it'd be similar to having pages for all the uni medal winners from every uni, every year. Sure, it was hard to get, but that is not notable in any WP sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JJJ999 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Strong delete - This is not a proper "academic sport" at the highest levels - where are the training systems and so forth. And this only covers the English speaking world (mostly). If it was real academic competition, like the International Mathematics Olympiad, we would have teams from Russia, China, Iran, India, Taiwan, Korea etc, funded by government dept of science/education, nationwide talent identification programs, with professors coaching them and the host country would send Nobel laureates and presidents and prime ministers to attend the operning ceremony and so forth. And those countries would take it seriously to get a propaganda boost over their arch-rivals. This is just a bunch of uni students mucking about at lunchtime. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• Strong delete - per nom, per bananabucket. Sarvagnya 02:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
  • comment- while I agree with the sentiment, it is a little harsh. Former PM's DO sometimes attend ceremonies (Ted Heath in the past, or the Malaysian Education minister for eg). Some uni's, mainly the posh ones, do also get a nice subsidy. The Asian Tiger countries Govt's fund it alot, so they obviously take it reasonably seriously... however at its heart, it's a bunch of uni students having fun, and not a professional competition in that sense, or of sufficient note. NBI also hasten to note that I've nominated quite a few similar psuedo debating pages of fraud-noteworthy status lately, so anyone who wants to vote or comment on them to, they should be visible in my history, including Chris Erskine. JJJ999 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Being both a world champion and the president of a major national debating organisation makes him notable. Purple Watermelon 05:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I do not see how a university hobby club counts as "major national". Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Non-notable winner of marginally notable competition. -- GWO 06:07, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, per Blnguyen, I don't believe this guy has encyclopedic notability. This competition isn't of sufficient note for a winner or place-getter to be notable therein. Daniel 06:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per GWO. ~ Riana ⁂ 06:23, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. WUDC is a notable competition. But it's nevertheless and university tournament rather than an 'open' world championship. I don't think that winning it is enough to make someone notable enough for a page on Wikipedia. Dorange 10:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
• comment I don't denigrate other people's sports, though I may think of them as a bunch of uni students mucking around after school. Debaters do train and practice. And international doesnt necessarily mean including every country--there are obvious reasons why a debating contest would involve speakers of a single language. DGG (talk) 01:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Yeah, but in stuff like the IMO, International Physics Olympiad, International Chemistry Olympiad, etc, all the communist countries + Iran, S Korea, Taiwan etc have already identified their training pool by age 12 and will segregate them into academy style education where they board and study only science and maths until they are 18 under the 24/7 supervision of professors. Even the Australian selection and training programs for Maths Science etc get $200k budget per year, are sponsored by major corporate bodies and airlines and whatnot, and Australia isn't even one of the cold-war type countries. This is what a person guunning for the real sport olympics would do, training for 4-6 hours a day, regimented sleep/diet regime for many years. This is not what happens at a university debate club, not even close.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep notable winner of an important contest. Deserves an own article. David Q. Johnson 11:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Note Account created 10 minutes before this AfD, has only two article edits and two userpage edits other than Afd. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• • Agreed, v.suspicious. Ignore his comments.JJJ999 06:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. There are many, many debate tournament winners and there is no need for Wikipedia to have biographies of them all. Listing Eastaugh as a past president on the CUSID entry and a past winner on the WUDC entry covers those points of notability. As a side comment, I don't really get bananabucket's obsession with comparing university debating with other competitions. Padraic 17:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Almost time to bump this on the head...JJJ999 15:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Move to Strike- voting has gone on long enough, clear consensus to scrub it.JJJ999 04:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Week keep - this really revolves around the issue of whether debating is notable or not. If debating is notable, then it is appropriate to have an article on someone who has won a major, university level, debating tournament. If debating is not notable, then neither is the tournament or its winners. I feel that debating is marginally notable, even if one considers it a hobby and not a sport. That said, I am concerned that the article is unsourced. If kept, it needs to be tagged and sourced. Blueboar 14:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.