Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dane Rauschenberg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. A merge to Fiddy2 might be considered, but that is not to be determined here. Neil ☎ 15:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dane Rauschenberg

Dane Rauschenberg (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This article about a runner is not notable and may be self promotion. The editors have been deleted or are anonymous IP addresses. A good amateur male marathon runner can finish in under 2 hours and 30 minutes, while Rauscheberg has barely broken 3 hours. Although a person volunteering to run 52 marathons in a year to raise funds for a charity is admirable, and may attract some local publicity along the way, it is not of enduring significance.Racepacket 01:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep -- The sources cited in Dane Rauschenberg#References and Dane Rauschenberg#External links are sufficient to establish a presumption of the notability of this person per Wikipedia's general notability guideline. John254 01:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, fulfills WP:BIO through coverage in multiple independent credible sources. Note that the status of editors has little bearing on an article's deletion, unless there is a persistent spammer or vandal. And anyway, editors aren't "deleted" other than the rare invocation of the right to vanish. --Dhartung | Talk 08:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete WP:N demands that athletes have competed at the highest levels -- either in a professional league (which is ridiculous for a runner) or at the "top amateur level." For running, for me, I think Olympics are the top amateur level, but I know little about the subject. Since this guy has run in a bunch of amateur, local marathons, and has been recognized by some local running associations, he appears to me to be non-notable per guideline. Deltopia 09:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

  Comment -- While Wikipedia:Notability (people) does state that "Competitors who have played or competed at the highest level in amateur sports" are notable, this does not imply that other amateur athletes are non-notable, when they clearly satisfy the standard of notability articulated in the general notability guideline. John254 12:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

  Nevermind Upon rereading WP:N, I think you're right. Deltopia 12:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. His accomplishments seem to be independently verifiable. - Che Nuevara 13:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - The notability guidelines say, "For example, advertisements, announcements columns, minor news stories, and coverage with low levels of discrimination, are all examples of matters that may not be evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation, despite the existence of reliable sources" and the external references cited in the article fit this description. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.91.86.2 (talk • contribs)
• Delete -- Not notable above and beyond any other "pretty good" marathon runner. This person is not notable in the world of running. In fact, statistics show that he is just an average fish in a HUGE pond. Millions of runners raise money for their marathon efforts. Many, many runners do as many marathons (and even longer more arduous challenge races)as he does, but his obscure "qualifiers" (as in "certified," "consecutive," etc) are the only thing making him stand out at all. And those qualifiers are just not that special in the world of running or anywhere else. Also, the tone is awkward: It has obviously been written by Raushenburg himself. While his accomplishments seem verifiable, their notability is dubious at best. (Parrson) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parrson (talk • contribs) 17:58, 29 October 2007 NOTE: I am Parrson and I had to open a new account because I forgot my password. I am a runner andd have seen this entry before and I always wondered why it was here. (PARRSON)(UTC) — Parrson (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  Comment -- I have to disagree with "not notable in the world of running" - in addition to the coverage in Sports Illustrated (which argues in favor of his notability as an amateur athlete), I'd read about him in at least one running publication (I don't remember which one, and I'm not going to go through stacks of back issues just to argue the point in an AFD, especially since the SI coverage is already documented) prior to hearing of him as a result of this AFD. As far as "the tone is awkward" that's an irrelevant argument for an AFD - badly written articles justify a rewrite, not deletion. CruiserBob 18:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Running 52 marathons in 52 weeks is quite an accomplishment, but might well not be Wikiworthy. There are ample reliable and verifiable sources included in the article, which does satisfy the Wikipedia:Notability standard. I would suggest that some of the sources be better integrated into the article. Alansohn 18:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC
  • The Marathon Maniac website: http://mm.littlemarathon.com/ScoreCard.asp lists a number of people who have matched or exceeded Dane's 52 marathons in 52 weeks. For example:
    • Raymond Scharenbrock ran 52 in 2001 (before Dane).
    • Craig Holcomb ran 50 marathons in 50 different states in one year.
    • Larry Macon ran 79 in 2005-2006.

There are websites for bragging about such things, but Wikipedia is not one of them. The sources cited are "coverage with low levels of discrimination" Racepacket 04:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

• Delete--Entries of this kind threaten to turn wikipedia into myspace. Looking through the history, it is obvious that Raushenburg wrote this entry himself (the initial versions included undocumented references to his family life and high school track meets). Notability would seem to require that someone took the time to note the achievement. Thousands of amateur athletes could post resumes and accomplishments that are equally impressive. Allowing them to do so undermines the website's objectivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrtotemfrog (talk • contribs)
  • — Mrtotemfrog (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Every single one of the nearly thirty edits made by this account to date has been to the Dane Rauschenberg article or directly related to Dane Rauschenberg. User has made no other unrelated Wikipedia edits. Alansohn 00:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Your claim of a WP:COI violation might well have some merit, if this AfD had been kicked off before March 2007. Since that point, there have been over 100 different edits to this article by several dozen different editors who have edited the article and added multiple reliable and verifiable sources to establish notability. There is no WP:WHAT-IF-EVERYBODY-ELSE-DID-THIS standard, nor is there any justification for using it to delete this (or any other) article. The issue of notability for this article, as it exists, has not been addressed. Alansohn 23:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Your reference to the number of edits might have some merit except all the edits are between the same handful of users. There are some constructive edits, but by and large, the edits consist of vandalism and then reversions. I don't condone vandalism, but its prevalence on this site is evidence that people don't take it seriously. While there are verifiable references in the article, the references are almost exclusively local. Ultimately, the problem is not of documentation. I'm convinced that the subject of the site ran 52 marathons in 2006 at an average time of a little over 3 hours. More documentation might better prove that point, but it won't do any more to convince me that this is notable content. By the site's own admission, two other people have done this same feat, can anyone name them? Do they have wikipedia sites? Chuck Engle also ran 50+ marathons in 2006 and his slowest time was fastest than Dane's fastest, does he have a wikipedia site? Sam Thompson and Dean Karnazes ran 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states in the same year. Recently runners ran 7 marathons in 7 days on 7 continents. The only feat arguably worthy of mention is the 52 marathons in one year, which receives one sentence on this site. 52 marathons in one year is an impressive feat, but in my opinion, not one that meets notability standards. I do not believe it warrants an encyclopedia entry. Others are free to disagree, but it's a difficult argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrtotemfrog (talk • contribs) 03:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
      • We started out objecting because this article will encourage every guy who's run around the block a few times to demand their own Wikipedia article. Now we've moved on to Dane Rauschenberg is one of three people in the world to have run 52 marathons in 52 weeks, but the other folks did it faster and they don't even have articles. Normally I'd remind you that WP:OTHERCRAPDOESNTEXIST is not an argument for deletion, but if you can give the names and reliable sources for these other individuals, I'd be more than happy to create articles for them. I can't judge notability based on who else doesn't have an article; I can tell you that this article provides ample reliable and verifiable sources to establish notability. Alansohn 03:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep NPR, Sports Illustrated... sounds good to me. Not notable as an athlete - in fact, some of his athletic 'accomplishments' should probably be taken out - but instead as a sort of minor celebrity. Brianyoumans 04:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep -- I'm not pleased about the WP:COI aspects of the article, but his coverage by NPR, BBC & Sports Illustrated get him over the bar for Wikipedia's general notability guideline. CruiserBob 18:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - the coverage was for a charity "fiddy2" (which raised less than its goal of $50,000) and not for the person. If anything, the article should be "fiddy2" which might mention the individual, rather than the other way around. Alternatively, the Wikiproject:Running people could start a List of Multiple Marathon Endurance Running Achievements and place the individual on the list, along with all of the others discussed above. Why is this individual more notable than all of the runners who finished ahead of him in these various races?Xcstar 18:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • — Xcstar (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. users only contribution has been to this AfD. Alansohn 18:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • According to Google, only 5 sites link to www.fiddy2.orgXcstar 12:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - the article Fiddy2 is more than sufficient for our purpose. This man's "fame" is only from that project. Greswik 17:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - Guinness Book of Records has long recognized that some people will be driven do to self-destructive things for publicity, (e.g., set the record for the most self-inflicted stab wounds, go over Niagra Falls in a barrel), and they have a policy excluding such feats from their book. Perhaps Wikipedia needs a similar policy - people should not be motivated to go out and undertake potentially harmful activities in the hopes of having (or writing) a Wikipedia page about the experience.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.