Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Damaka (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete - the argumwents to delete (reliant on policy) are better than the (reliant on bloggery) arguments to keep. Proto::type 11:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Damaka

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Original AFD only lasted three hours and received an unsubstantial number of votes. Agreed on talk page that it was fair to give it another shot. Seems somewhat notable after all. --Czj 17:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep - check out the sources which are now present. These guys are getting legit media coverage. Friday (talk) 17:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep per Friday. --Czj 17:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep It's a recently-established company and may need revisiting a few years down the line -- I'm not sure current media attention will translate to long-term notability. But the coverage seems to be there for now. Shimeru 18:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep: this article is not any different from other wikipedia articles by compananies in the same space. Resources have been added since last delete request, history mentioned, and company has had significant coverage in the media. If this article is deleted, then same close scrutiny should apply to some of the others below.
    • skype
    • Ekiga: A free application that supports both H.323, SIP, audio and video. Ekiga was formerly known as GnomeMeeting. So far works only with various Linux based systems. No version for Microsoft Windows has been released yet, but there is a working snapshot available.
    • Kiax: VoIP application based on IAX
    • PSI: The current Beta version has protocol support for Google Talk
    • Switchboard: Free VoIP applet which works from within a web browser. Works on Windows, Mac, Linux, and any other Java enabled platform. No installation necessary
    • Tapioca: Includes support for Google Talk
    • WengoPhone: A free VoIP application based on SIP open standard
    • Freetalk: A command line jabber client with VoIP support. Has readline support and scheme as an extension language. This project is a part of the GNU Project.
    • amiciPhone: A secure peer-to-peer VoIP application
    • damaka: SIP-based VoIP software with IPTV, IP radio, desktop sharing, file transfer, RSS reader, and others
    • Google Talk: popular service provided by Google
    • Gizmo Project: A closed source VoIP application based on SIP open standard and uses SRTP between clients. Now offering [1]free] landline/cell calls to over 60 countries
    • iCall: A closed source free VoIP application based on SIP open standard and providing free PC to Phone calling in the US and Canada.
    • Jajah: Alternative where no headset, no download, no installation and no broadband connection is necessary. A VoIP call gets activated between two normal phones.
    • Secure Shuttle Transport (SST): Free encryption and secure messaging software including VoIP and video. Works on PCs running Windows 98 or higher.
    • SightSpeed: Free video and voice calling service supporting Mac & Windows. Also allows phone out and in calling.
    • Parlino: A VoIP network based on open standard SIP-protocols, launched by Parlino S.A.
    • Vbuzzer: A VoIP softphone and service as well as an active advocator of SIP open standard
    • VoIP Buster: A VoIP application offering 300 minutes per week of free calls to landlines in many countries, including the EU, USA, Australia, etc.
    • VoIP Stunt: A VoIP application offering 300 minutes per week of free calls to landlines in many countries, including the EU, USA, Australia, etc.
    • Zfone is a solution of Phil Zimmermann (inventor of PGP) to encrypt VoIP (SIP) sessions, protocol published as IETF draft. [2]
    • TipicIM: A free VoIP application, Videocalling based on XMPP/Jabber and Speex audio codec support
    • [ClosedTalk]® is secure VoIP software free for Business/Personal use. Works on PCs running Windows 2000/XP. [ClosedTalk]" exposes �man in the middle� attacks by displaying a short security message on both caller screens for comparison.
    • BT Communicator [3] is a VOIP servic from British Telecom (BT plc.)
  • Keep, notability is sufficiently demonstrated. I would recommend to the editors of this page that they make a significant effort to avoid marketing language. I had to remove a lot of POV puffery and aggressive branding language from the article. —ptk✰fgs 18:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete after reviewing the references, all except one (the Indonesian newspaper) are either press releases or trivial sources such as blogs. We're down to only one non-trivial reliable source and without another one this does not meet WP:CORP. —ptk✰fgs 17:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Ptkfgs need to review references again. A number of publications in legitimate sources such as official columns for CNET, TMCnet, IP Communications, etc. These are NOT only blogs. Unfair notability requirement from ptkfgs for one company only. Other companies in similar space (as noted above) do not have a single article published about them, but no one argued their notability. I just checked the profile of many companies (as noted above) and many do not mention a single article on them. Believe request for deletion for this one company may be posted by competitors who do not want this company mentioned in wikipedia. --[[User:msherif] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.100.72.182 (talk • contribs) 13:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep I posted the most recent AFD request because the article was rubbish and didn't contribute anything other than marketing. This is much better. Andymarczak 19:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keepadditional clean-up done. some citations added although some still open. article much better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Judith96 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Judith96 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other contributions outside this topic.
  • DELETE nn software--Flog agg 17:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per Ptkfgs. --AbsolutDan (talk) 17:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
  • DELETE not notable social software, inserted to raise its profile in social software circles.--User:Tecoates
  • KEEP - There were about ten reference links posted about this company yesterday which was on their wikipedia article page. All of these references except for one (indonesian newspaper) was removed. REQUEST for WIKIPEDIA AUTHORITY to please check who deleted these references to legit articles about damaka. (references to the company was re-added).User_talk:blue.einstein
I removed those references. They're all damaka Inc. press releases or trivial blogs and don't add anything but padding and marketing claims to the article. Press releases from the company are not legitimate sources of information about the company. I request that you please review WP:RS and WP:CORP before reinserting those links in the article. —ptk✰fgs 18:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
There were a number of articles in there from independent publications. Since when are interviews with Network World and a write-up by a staff member of CNET consider company issued marketing? There is a request for deletion of this article (I believe by you?) and while this request is being considered, you took it into your judgement to delete references which can help other editors decide on this issue? Why don't you leave these references alone while the decision is being made? I also noticed that you took the time to edit the features section of this article extensively. Have you reviewed the features section of other companies (like skype) and tried to implement the same editing criteria? I have re-added reference articles for this article so that others can decide their validity. I appreciate you leaving it there for others' review. —User:blue.einstein✰User_talk:blue.einstein
Fine whatever. This isn't worth my time anymore. You want to spam Wikipedia, go ahead. —ptk✰fgs 02:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • DELETE Not notable enough to warrant an entry. The references cited are predominantly press releases by the company or blog entries, the few others do not include anything that would make the company notable. The only reason for this entry is to market the service on Wikipedia, as evidenced by the fact that it is added by the company itself.--Teemuk 06:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete no reliable sources, blogs and press releases aren't considered reliable. Whispering 18:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per above. Changed from keep- I didn't notice the nature of the sources at first glance. Friday (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Some of these sources look legit to me. WriterBob(talk) — Possible single purpose account: WriterBob (talk • contribs) has made few or no other contributions outside this topic.
  • Delete Even after several revisions it still reads like a vanity page and advert. Rearden9 20:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Neutral I have looked at the articles for competing companies in the same space and many do not have a single reference to establish notability. I have posted "non-notable software" delete requests for these articles (ie. amicima, wengophone, zfone). I ask the editors to be fair and apply the same deletion criteria for these other articles as well. (Martha.weinberg 00:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)) — Possible single purpose account: Martha.weinberg (talk • contribs) has made few or no other contributions outside this topic..
    • Agreed. With the exception of your addition of {{advert}} to Jabber, the majority of your dispute tags added to non-notable communications software articles are perfectly accurate. Those programs are clearly in the same class as damaka and I will endorse their deletion without reservation if they are nominated in their current states. One question, though: how did you learn to apply dispute tags so quickly, and what motivated you to apply them exclusively to competitors of the software described in the article discussed on this deletion debate? Don't be surprised if some others question your good faith! —ptk✰fgs 00:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It's not that difficult to put in a dispute tag. Also, the earlier entry on this debate page listed the competitors in the same space. I thought i'd follow the link and see if the complaint that perhaps this request was launched by competition holds true. and I found that some of the vote for deletion come from editors of competing companies. I think this will be a problem that wikipedia will increasingly face in the future. competitors trying to block or sabotage competitors pages. I could care less if this article is deleted. But I do care that the wiki team finds a way to maintain fair rule of play. (Martha.weinberg 01:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)).
      • If we end up with a bunch of companies all nominating each other's spam articles for deletion, then I'd say the problem has solved itself. —ptk✰fgs 12:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.