Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afro-Mexican

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Bratsche^{talk 5 pillars} 02:08, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Afro-Mexican

Article has been merged into Afro-Latin American#Mexico. There is no article for Latin Americans so there is no no reason to separate this group out, let alone have several articles about them. If Afro-Latin American survives it's Vfd it should be merged, otherwise deleted SqueakBox July 9, 2005 00:20 (UTC)

Keep. If you are planning to delete Afro-Latin American then Afro-Mexican would be lost. There is a group for Latin Americans which is the Latin America article itself. There is an article about African Americans so an article about Afro-Mexicans is well justified.

Keep. or... merge all the articles in only one about black outside africa.

You don't have to merge the two articles because they don't talk about the same topic, one talks about people with African descent in Mexico the other one about people with African descent in Latin America. By your own argument then Mexico should be merged with the Latin America article?

I would argue that the Afro-Latin American article needs the Mexican bit to make it a full article, otherwise it is too bitty. If that article survives I will start a Latin American article preciselty in order to stop what I see as the insidious rascism in the way this topic is being treated (starting with the name). BTW Mexico is a part of Latin America, SqueakBox July 9, 2005 00:41 (UTC)

SqueakBox, So, we must delete the article about US, and England because there is an article about anglo-saxon?. Of course not, We are speaking of very diferent things. Latin-american and hispanic are cultural terms, withouth regard of country or race. The history of black people in Mexico is very diferent from the history of Haiti, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, or Brazil. Honestly i see to option, or have an article on the history of black people outside africa, that would include subchater regarding each contry.. or keep with indepndient articles, like afro-american, afro-cuban, afrom-exican , etc. I found the clasification of "afro-latinamerican" too artificial.

• While the article needswork, I think it is a potentially viable article. Keep - Guettarda 9 July 2005 00:46 (UTC)
• Keep. Your logic is very flawed: there IS a Hispanics article, and even if there weren't, it wouldn't represent a value judgment that Hispanics are inferior to Afro-Mexicans; it would just mean no one had written one yet. Sorry for repeating points from the Afro-Latin American VfD; I will also repeat the point that SqueakBox should stop making accusations of racism. Dcarrano July 9, 2005 00:52 (UTC)

The hispanic article is about people in the US. BTW I haven't accused anyone of rascism. We should not veer away from discussing rascist attitudes on Wikipedia. Please don't try to censure that, SqueakBox July 9, 2005 00:59 (UTC)

True, the hispanic is about people in the US, so was Afro-Latino and you merged it into Afro-Latin American which is about people in Latin America. You didn't accuse anyone in particular but wrote "Comment. Latin American redirects to Latin America. If Latin Americans aren't deserving of an article for what reason do we need an Afro-American article. Sounds rascist to me, SqueakBox July 8, 2005 18:39 (UTC)" at the Vfd page. I assure you nobody is trying to denigrate Afro-Latin Americans by writing an article about them. --Vizcarra 9 July 2005 01:10 (UTC)

• Keep. Distinct community - recently in the news objecting to the Memin Pinguin postage stamp. -- BD2412 ^talk July 9, 2005 03:19 (UTC)
• Keep. Major ethnic groups deserve articles. If there are problems with the article, it should certainly be fixed, but it would be a serious omission not to have an article on this topic. To me, this is a really clear case. Would you also VfD Malaysian Chinese and Mizrahi Jew?--Pharos 9 July 2005 03:37 (UTC)
• Keep. There will be (and should be) some overlap between the two, but this needn't be merged. -Sean Curtin July 9, 2005 04:26 (UTC)
• Keep. notable community. Merger not necessary. carmeld1 22:12, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. A no-brainer to me; of couse we should keep. Moncrief 06:25, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. A clearly distinct and forgotten community that deserves its own article. Asereje 19:38, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Wikipedia itself is only a few years old and articles are continuing to grow. There are far more obscure articles that Wikipedia is not considering for deletion. For example: Lepontic language is not considered for deletion. WHy then should a living group of people now be ignored on WIkipedia. Squeakbox, your logic is biased (not flawed, but biased). If the mere mention of "Afro" or "Black" people, or culture, or identity even raises the possibility of you considering it to be racist, then it's obvious that your point of view is far from objective. The Black experience in the world has been stratified since the European focus on stratifing Blacks (for discrimination, slavery, etc) began. Therefore the end result is real, and we should not pretend to have a polarized comparison to "whites" or "others". The Black experience in mexico is worth expanding as for merely academic use this particular stratified group of people are being characterized right now on a silly postage stamp to look like gorillas. Memin Penguin should be enough reason for you to realize that it's necessary to keep the article.

It was certainly Menim that made me aware of this series of articles on Afro Latinos. I haven't actually read Menim, though I have fears (perhaps misplaced) that it is an example of the US accusing Mexico of rascism. Which seems a bit off to me. Who are the Americans (or Brits) to criticise other cultures. I think the name Afro is very patronising as the Afro-American concept is purely American. If you want to write about stratification in Mexican society it would be a good idea to create White Mexican and Indigenous Mexican, SqueakBox 17:05, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

There are many articles about indigenous Mexicans (Azteca, Mayas, Chichimecas, Olmecs, Mixte, Toltec, [[Yaqui], Totonac, Tarascan, etc.). There aren't many about White Mexicans (only one, Chipilo, that I'm aware of), so you are free to write it. --Vizcarra 17:17, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

By indigenous I meant something that covers the whole indigenous experience (of stratification etc). And I may start an Indigenous Latin American and White Latin American article if these survive the Vfd, SqueakBox 17:36, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.