Talk:Art Tatum

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Contents 1 Transcription 2 Error 3 Great improvising pianists ... 4 NPOV? 5 YouTube links 6 Tatum Emulators 7 Cleanup ideas 8 Year of birth 9 Discography 10 Enough with the "acclaim" section, maybe?

[edit] Transcription

Hi, I wanted to share with you a transcription that I made recently of Art Tatum's "Begin The Beguine".

http://collinatorstudios.com/tatum

enjoy!

-patrick

All I can say is. Wow. Bmathew 07:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Amazing, thanks!

++

Great article. In the 40's, Tatum also recorded for the V-Disc series, and recorded for the [Moses] Asch label.

[edit] Error

I removed the following passage; the section in caps was posted by a newby, so it is probably an error rather than vandalism. I raise it here as the "images" referred to may not be the sequence in the Dorsey's biopic:

and a couple of other brief images in a non-descript documentary [PLEASE FIX AS SEVERAL MINUTES OF VIDEO OF ART TATUM CAN BE FOUND IN THE VIDEO DOCUMENTARY MARTIN SCORSESE PRESENTS THE BLUES].

Philip Cross 11:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great improvising pianists ...

Imagine, if you will, a pianists' heaven. I can imagine Art Tatum and Charles Camille Saint-Saëns there, trying to outdo each other, with, amongst other things, outrageous runs up and down the keyboard!

Somehow I doubt that Saint-Saëns would want to jam with Tatum. — Mütze 21:27, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV?

Quite a few sentences like

To hear these recordings today is to marvel at the structure and interplay which are unequalled to this day.

Might be factual but doesn't carry that tone at all

[edit] YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 06:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Are the wikipedia servers based in the US? Art Tatum's recordings are in the public domain in the UK and should be in the rest of Europe. You all his recordings to this article and you wouldn't be breaking the law. In these countries, the copyright has expired. Supposed 02:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tatum Emulators

From The Article...

"Unlike jazz greats Louie Armstrong or Miles Davis or John Coltrane, each of whom spawned a school of devotees emulating the master, there emerged no school of Tatum clones -- perhaps because his playing was so difficult to copy. As a result, while very influential in the jazz world, Tatum is practically unknown to the general public today."

Thought it might be good to mention the few Tatum emulators...

ie. Johnny Costa and Oscar Peterson —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bizrat (talk • contribs) 16:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

You are correct about Tatum emulators. Even though Oscar developed his own style, he owes a large debt to Tatum. Kolef 4/11/07

[edit] Cleanup ideas

Certain details in the article sound a little less than encyclopedic. I’ll put them down here for discussion before I suggest any real action.

1. The use of the word “songs” in the second paragraph of the biography. As piano duets are rarely songs, the words “works” or “pieces” would be preferable.

AGREED - kolef88

2.”he made great leaps in terms of technique and theory”. One does not really make leaps in theory unless one is a researching musicologist. Do we mean advances in harmonic language, in use of counterpoint within the jazz idiom (three hand effects etc …) or what?. The term "theory” means exactly nothing in this context.

OK, BUT ALREADY USED THE PHRASE "HARMONIC VOCABULARY".

    Technique and harmony would still be enough IMHO Batonpower (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

3. “May have inspired pianists” – either he did or he didn’t – subjective if left uncorrected

4. “Occasionally, this was a matter of altering the root movements of a tune so as to more effectively apply familiar harmonies” - far too arcane for an encyclopedia article – sounds smart, but provides little real information.

THAT'S HOW JAZZ MUSICIANS REHARMONIZE TUNES -- THEY ALTER THE ROOTS OR THE CHORD STRUCTURES.

    Of course. But this page will be read by other people than jazz players. Reharmonizing would be a better term - there is not even a "root movement" entry in Wikipedia, although you could certainly write one if you wish - I mean this in all seriousness. Batonpower (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

5. The bit about Tatum playing with a trio sound like the subjective interpretation of a single person. To say that the trio lacked ensemble without surmising about the reasons would be preferable. There can be a whole bunch of reasons why the trio didn’t work (working conditions, lack of preparation, lack of co-operation by individuals etc …), it'd be nice to have a real consensus, but few people have actually heard those recordings. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF THE TRIO WORK?

    My opinion matters little, more people need to listen to them to come to a credible consensus. My feeling - and I heard them loooong ago, is that they hardly prepared, and that Tatum's style was not really based on any kind of co-operation. Batonpower (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT FEELING -- HOWEVER, IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR JAZZ ENSEMBLES TO NOT PREPARE MUCH IF AT ALL, EVEN FOR RECORD DATES. Kolef88

6. The acclaim section contains too many unsourced quotes (Rakhmaninov, Gershwin, Rubinstein) and one which is actually cited as a legend (Horowitz). A cleanup would be good. SEE BELOW.

7. "It remains a mystery just how he created the impression " - highly subjective

EXPLAIN IT THEN.

   I frequently work with fine pianists, violinists cellists etc ... Although they may be technically stellar, I don't like to deify them since all technique can be taught. It all comes down to talent and hard work.Batonpower (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

CHECK OUT ART TATUM PLAYING YESTERDAYS ON YOUTUBE AND THEN TELL ME IF THAT CAN BE TAUGHT. Kolef88 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.65.55 (talk) 01:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

8. "Only a handful ...have attempted to seriously emulate or challenge Tatum" - "Challenge" is not really appropriate regarding an art form. Batonpower (talk) 16:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

CUTTING CONTESTS USED TO BE PREVALENT IN JAZZ.

   True, but it still seems harsh in an encyclopedic context. Batonpower (talk) 04:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The acclaim section is a mess and needs a whole rework - almost all the quotes should be thrown out because they're unsourced. I've been meaning to do that ... - DavidWBrooks (talk) 16:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

WHY DON'T YOU REMOVE THE QUOTES THAT YOU THINK ARE UNTRUE, RATHER THAN DELETING THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE UNSOURCED. IF BEING UNSOURCED IS THE TEST, TWO-THIRDS OF WIKIPEDIA IS OUT THE WINDOW. KOLEF88.

[edit] Year of birth

A lot of sources say he was born in 1910. Are we sure he was born in 1909? -- JackofOz (talk) 12:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discography

The seven The Tatum Group Masterpieces are in a weird order; instead of going numerically from numbers 1-7, they seem to be listed haphazardly (6, 7, 4, 2, 3, 1). Was that the order they were released? Red dwarf (talk) 21:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Enough with the "acclaim" section, maybe?

People have done a great job sourcing quotes from other musicians about Tatum's greatness. But I think we're bordering on overkill now: we have 9 or 10 of them. I hope that's about it; it's starting to look repetitive. If a really good one comes along, perhaps we could remove a lesser quote. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It's just that a couple of contributors seem to question whether there is a consensus about Tatum's greatness, and hopefully providing quotes from a number of preeminent jazz musicians will help put that to rest. Kolef88 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.65.55 (talk) 00:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)