Talk:Armenians in Georgia

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[edit] Infobox

I'm not sure whether an infobox is needed here (although it is present there, for example). However if it was deleted the information it contained has to be incorporated in the article. Alæxis_¿question? 20:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Planning to do some extensive work on this article and will be adding this info there for sure. Steelmate (talk) 23:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Armenianism in Georgia

So what exactly is being disputed here? Steelmate (talk) 07:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

All problems that are described in the section cannot be united under the term Anti-Armenianism. It's POV and OR. The overall tone of the article is significantly biased, trying to illustrate the group as victims rather than giving a neutral and comprehensive ethnographic overview of this important component of Georgia's ethnic and social structure.--Kober^Talk 07:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

All problems discribed are of the anti-armenian nature so as long as they do describe anti armenian actions those actions do belong to this section. The title "Anti-Armenianism in Georgia" is not considered to be POV title and existed before in other wikipedia article Anti-Armenianism. And the last, this section is not finished and in my opinion deserves it's own page once the content will be expanded. Steelmate (talk) 14:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope. Even if we assume that the term “Anti-Armenianism” exists in any credible publication other than Wikipedia, it is supposed to mean a systematic discriminatory campaign or universal hatred against the Armenian people. You will have to prove that such a phenomenon exists in Georgia.--Kober^Talk 15:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

It does exist, and every Armenian has felt it. The universal hatred or hatred of majority or hatred of some of the population is still a hatred and falls under the umbrella of “Anti-Armenianism”. It shoudln't be universal as even Antisemitism was not universal in Fascist Germany. Steelmate (talk) 19:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you a spokesman for “every Armenian”? Ethnic problems are a sensitive area and should be described in a neutral manner using credible sources and not generalized in order to promote some neologisms. Following your logic, I should now assume that daily attacks against Georgia and Georgians in some nationalistic Armenian media outlets or taxi drivers-generated urban legends of Shota Rustaveli’s Armenianness is a manifestation of… well, not quite universal, but still Anti-Georgianism in Armenia. Would I be correct?--Kober^Talk 20:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I would recommend you (and everybody interested) to go to georgian forums and read responses of regular georgian users on topics regarding Armenians in general and Armenians in Georgia in particular. It is open hatred and dislike! Not all posts, but vast majority. Now I have yet to see this kind of hatred from Armenians towards Georgians. The Armenian response to this hatred is surprise and it might (and is) growing into reciprocal hatred (Anti-Georgianism) as well. Shota Rustaveli being Armenian or Georgian - has nothing to do with sentiment towards georgian people, it is a historical question. But denying jobs, denying legal rights, and publicly stated hatred is indicator of the sentiment in the modern (or is it modern?) georgian society. Steelmate (talk) 09:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Web-forums are not considered to be sources in Wikipedia. One thing I can tell you is that Georgian forums strongly prohibit anti-national posts and users who dare to write them are banned. This is not case in many popular Armenian websites such as the notoriously nationalistic hayastan.com. As for the Rustaveli case and similar “historical questions”, claiming cultural achievements by your neighbors as yours does contribute to the inter-communal tensions. I’m not going to waste my time in dealing with your rhetoric anymore. Please provide a neutral, third-party source stating that Armenians are deprived of the rights to work and vote. And please be so kind to give a few examples of “publicly stated hatred” towards Armenians.--Kober^Talk 10:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Administartion of georgian forums (f.e. famous forum.ge) may state that it prohibits anti-national posts, but I don't see this being enforced as you say, secondly, those posts still represent sentiments of many georgians which forum fules cannot change. And the last, Armenians are underrepresented in every political and legal and social sphere on Georgia. And that has been stated in the article with necessery references. Steelmate (talk) 11:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Examples? References? Mqinvartsveri (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)