Talk:Antonio Caggiano
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I've removed the following paragraph:
- Bishop Caggiano returned to Buenos Aires in May 1946, in first-class on the same ship as Emile Dewoitine, a French industrialist convicted in absentia in 1948 for Collaborationism. Dewoitine developed in Argentina the Pulqui, which was the first South American jet.
This has nothing to do with Caggiano. If it's meant to be a sign that Caggiano was aiding collaborationists, it should say so directly.
I've also formatted the birth and death dates as per policy, and reordered the text. Caggiano's anti-communism was undoubtedly important but his trajectory in the church is the main topic. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 23:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
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- I don't think you need this sentence to convey Caggiano's feeling. However, I do think that it is not an irrelevant fact to add. Being several days or weeks on a ship, in the same first-class parts of the boat, gives some time for one to meet another. Both had similar political opinions, and both worked closely for the military. Except if you dispute the source (I don't think so, but maybe), I really think it is not an uninteresting detail. Please assume good faith, Pablo, it is not because I make edits to controversial subjects that my goal is an ideological one. I am much more pragmatic than that. I'd like to recall Uki Goñi's words here, concerning his book on ratlines: "Reactions are completely different depending where the book is read. In Argentina, a politicized society of almost neurotic intensity, Peronists can't see it as anything else but a fresh attempt to discredit Perón, and are highly resentful; while anti-Peronists see it only as fresh mud to sling at the currently dominant Peronist faction. It is only younger Argentines, or those who have emigrated to escape the current Argentine unhealthiness, who take it for what I intend it to be, as historic investigation. In Europe and the US, the response has been much more positive, in terms of the book being viewed as straightforward historical research". When I make edits to the Algerian Civil War concerning the OJAL, a death squad which made false flag attacks passing by as Islamist terrorists, it is not anymore to defend Islamists (as one user on the Algerian Civil War page seems to believe). Best continuations, Tazmaniacs
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- I believe it's better to acknowledge one's biases. I wouldn't be surprised if Caggiano met Dewoitine and made a good friend of him; however, unless there's proof of it, the paragraph looks out of place. You do know the saying about Caesar's wife, don't you? You may have noticed that I started this article myself, and I took great care of outlining Caggiano's ideology and actions. I don't like the guy; that's why I need to keep cool and avoid things that may look like mudslinging. I would welcome a sourced proof that he was not only an anti-Communist and a supporter of dictators but also a Nazi sympathizer. The paragraph I remove doesn't show that. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 18:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- So Uki Goñi, The Real Odessa: Smuggling the Nazis to Perón's Argentina. New York; London: Granta Books. ISBN 1-86207-581-6 (hardcover); ISBN 1-86207-552-2 (paperback, 2003) pp. 96–8 does not qualifies as WP:RS? Having biases, that is a perspective on life, doesn't means lying. I acknowledge having biases, but I believe my use here, if I have one, is in sourcing stuff, not in putting my POV in it. Of course my POV gets apparents on what I am interested into, but the question is about WP:Verifiability not about inserting value judgments. PS: I never said he was a Nazi sympathizor, you infered that (although I wouldn't contradict you: have a look at ratlines and you will see that to say the reverse would be difficult. A lot of stuff from Goñi and others could easily be inserted (and the problem is not about one's liking or not the personage, although clearly I won't say you that I "like" him. But we're not discussing personal affinities or friendship here, but history and politics, which are two distinct things (IMO). Tazmaniacs 20:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- By all means "The Real Odessa..." is a reliable source. That's not what I meant. If it says Caggiano did something about Dewoitine besides being in the same ship, I agree it would be important to mention it. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 01:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- So Uki Goñi, The Real Odessa: Smuggling the Nazis to Perón's Argentina. New York; London: Granta Books. ISBN 1-86207-581-6 (hardcover); ISBN 1-86207-552-2 (paperback, 2003) pp. 96–8 does not qualifies as WP:RS? Having biases, that is a perspective on life, doesn't means lying. I acknowledge having biases, but I believe my use here, if I have one, is in sourcing stuff, not in putting my POV in it. Of course my POV gets apparents on what I am interested into, but the question is about WP:Verifiability not about inserting value judgments. PS: I never said he was a Nazi sympathizor, you infered that (although I wouldn't contradict you: have a look at ratlines and you will see that to say the reverse would be difficult. A lot of stuff from Goñi and others could easily be inserted (and the problem is not about one's liking or not the personage, although clearly I won't say you that I "like" him. But we're not discussing personal affinities or friendship here, but history and politics, which are two distinct things (IMO). Tazmaniacs 20:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- I believe it's better to acknowledge one's biases. I wouldn't be surprised if Caggiano met Dewoitine and made a good friend of him; however, unless there's proof of it, the paragraph looks out of place. You do know the saying about Caesar's wife, don't you? You may have noticed that I started this article myself, and I took great care of outlining Caggiano's ideology and actions. I don't like the guy; that's why I need to keep cool and avoid things that may look like mudslinging. I would welcome a sourced proof that he was not only an anti-Communist and a supporter of dictators but also a Nazi sympathizer. The paragraph I remove doesn't show that. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 18:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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