Talk:Amy Lee/Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Removed American Christians category

As far as I was able to see, there was no reference to religion in this article. So I went hunting and wasn't able to find anything that would suggest what she considers herself to be. Her page on WikiQuote seems to talk about Christianity in a third-person perspective. "There are people hell-bent on the idea that we're a Christian band in disguise, that we have some secret message. We have no spiritual affiliation with this music. It's simply about life experience." 'Course, I may be wrong. If someone can provide reasonable citations, let's add it back in. --Brad Beattie (talk) 21:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the reason it is there is because back in the day, they *did* align themselves with the Christian music scene, and Ben and Amy were definitely Christian as well. While they have distanced themselves from the music scene, there has been no indication that they (specifically Amy) have changed their personal philosophies. Check out some of the older references here and in the main Evanescence article, there's plenty to point to Christian roots. I'm not concerned either way, so I'll let you add it back if you feel these reasons are sufficient. -- Huntster T • @ • C 22:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Although i DO agree with Hunster...Amy Lee has said that their music isnt christian, she said "i am a christian person, and it does get into our songs because its from personal experiences BUT i do not write about christianity on purpose" Zacanescence 15:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

If she says her music isn't Christian, she is lying, because she spent a good while promoting her music as Christian when she played at TNT nightclub. That said, there isn't anything in the article about that part of her career so maybe I should add it. Im not particulary knowlegeable, but I did live in Arkansas at the time, and attended a few of her shows in early 1999 before she became famous. I have a friend who was a good acquitance of hers however. Anyways, the point is, when I went to her shows I was surrounded by Christians prostelyzing to me, because it was a Christian nightclub. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.202.120.159 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

While your contributions would be appreciated, they need to be backed by some quotable source. Also, I believe they acknowledged that they were originally a Christian-esque band, but later on decided to focus more on the mainstream audience. -- Huntster T • @ • C 03:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I heard once that Ben/Amy stated they were christian, just weren't involved in the cristian music seen. either way I am not concerned. can anyone back this up? --Amylee1234 16:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

It would appear all evidence is pointing to the fact she is a christian herself, this this page should be categorised as such. Do not be assuming that because she is a christian her band has to be christian, or visa versa. Mathmo Talk 04:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely agreed, though it would probably be a good idea to find a more recent source that says she is Christian before deciding whether or not to keep that particular category. We know she was several years ago, but I'm cautious in applying old citations like that. Honestly though, I don't care either way, it's just a suggestion. -- Huntster T • @ • C 05:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Amy Lee and Evanescence in general are Christian in the same sense that Creed was a Christian band, that is, Creed was composed of members that professed to be Christian, and often their songwriting took on a very spiritual if not out-right Christian lean, but they never wanted to be pigeonholed as such. Part of that very well may come from how Christian bands and performers, once labeled as such, have traditionally had a harder time crossing over into mainstream music, though that has loosened up in more recent years. Evanescence might be a little more "Christian" than even Creed was as they did promote themselves in CCM markets and Christian bookstores for much of "Fallen"'s early success, but then they had that infamous about-face where Ben Moody acted as if it was some huge management mistake that the band had no say in, causing quite the controversy. Anyhow, the point, as it relates to this discussion, is that I wouldn't classify Amy Lee as a "Christian" singer, vocalist, etc., because to do so would insinuate that her music is Christian, and it's not - it's not anti-Christian, as she herself is a Christian by most accounts and those beliefs are often reflected in her writing, but she isn't a goth-rock Amy Grant or Jennifer Knapp, either. It wouldn't be wrong to include a section regarding her beliefs (provided it could be properly documented, etc.), but if it is done, I think it should be done in such a way as to be kept separate from her music so as to not confuse readers into thinking she's a not just a musician who is also a Christian, but in fact a Christian musician. Nolefan32 23:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Very well stated. As I said before, there's nothing wrong with mentioning her faith, provided it is cited and preferrably from a more recent source (there are a number for back in the day that could be used, but I hesitate to use old material in this fashion). -- Huntster T • @ • C 00:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Pictures Of Amy Lee

Is there a better picture of Amy that we can use because the one up shows her eyebrow peircing and she doesn't have it anymore. Zacanescence 05:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Na... She's beautiful like that (Amy Lamedes (talk) 10:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC))

Sister's Death

I have read in several places that the death of her younger sister was caused by leukemia. Can anyone back this up? NargleFishHat 05:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

No.  Armando.O  (talk|contribs) 17:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Her sister died from an unknown illness - not even doctors knew what it was. Don't remember where I read it, though, but it was something Amy said. Maybe on evboard.com, but I'm not sure. --Annerpapaya 18:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Carrie Lee

Carrie Lee, is this Amy Lee sister???  Armando.O  (talk|contribs) 23:27, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I seriously doubt it, else *something* would have been mentioned before now, somewhere in the world of Evanescence. I've certainly seen nothing of that nature. -- Huntster T • @ • C 03:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Carrie Lee is amy's sister, she sang backups on CMWYS along with amy's other sister Zacanescence 10:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but not that Carrie Lee that Armando linked to above. -- Huntster T • @ • C 14:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Contributions to The Damning Well

can we include something about her involvement with the Damning Well? i know that details on that group are sketchy at best, but she's mentioned on its wikipedia page, and i think we should at least link it back though her "other projects". Deutschebag17 05:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Uh, she was involved in what way? Can you locate any verifiable source? She isn't showing up on the Wikipedia article, at least not in its current revision. Please, do not add any such link without a source to back it up. -- Huntster T • @ • C 08:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
got the information off Danny Lohner's page. don't know how verifiable that is, but it is there. Deutschebag17 14:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
A simple google search revealed that information to be false. While there were two songs recorded by Lee, both were scrapped because of label interferance. I'll see about adding something about this to the article. -- Huntster T • @ • C 20:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

is this true?

i read somewhere that the song "October" was based on the death of one of Amy Lee's bf's, this song and "My Immortal" is this true?

  • If you could find where you read it then maybe we could check, but i personally dont know. Might goooogle it and see what we get --Childzy (Talk|Contribs) 08:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

i believe i read it under some YouTube comments.

i dont think it could be verified as being true purely from a youtube so best not including it in't article --Childzy (Talk|Contribs) 21:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


i understand, i was just wondering if the statements were true.

I read somewhere that Ben wrote both "My Immortal" and "Haunted" about a short story he wrote about a person who died and a haunted another person, i just dont remember where. NargleFishHat 06:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

not true. My Immortal was written by Ben Moody

Why Amy?? -_-

Amy Fierd Rocky And John T_T..Why?..Does Anyone Know?..This Is Terrible..-XxInuyasha6

No reason has been given for LeCompt being fired or Gray leaving (he left, he wasn't fired). Supposedly there is some sort of gag order imposed on the guys by Wind-up to prevent them from speaking about the reasons. I'd recommend reading the posts on http://www.evthreads.com for more information. -- Huntster T • @ • C 16:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I had no idea this happened? When??? can anyone answer my questions? i am very concerned! how long have rocky and john been in evanescence? Was is really Amy that fired them?--Amylee1234 16:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Understand that Amy is a very different person in real life then her voice and songs would have you believe, she has clashed with pretty much everyone, and then constantly bitches about them in interviews. In private life, she is very unpopular, some even consider her mentally unwell.
Anyway, She fired LeCompt, BY PHONE, and I'm presuming Rocky left because of Amy's behaviour in John's firing and generally. Amy believes she IS Evanescence, and constantly says "me" and "my" rather than "Evanescence" and "our", so I can only guess she's reminding herself that she's the shit, and felt John (and, well, the whole band eventually, no-one's left) are excess baggage. 86.138.91.223 10:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Article Name Change

If amy lee is now married to Josh Hartzler will she be taking his second name? Luke255 14:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Until and unless she officially states that she will be known as Amy Hartzler, we cannot even consider changing the article name, as that would be considered original research. Even then, Wikipedia policy states that article titles should be the most commonly known form of the name or title, so "Amy Lee" should probably remain as the article title, since that is what the vast majority of people will know her as. In that situation, a simple redirect to this page can be set up from Amy Hartzler or Amy Lee-Hartzler or whatever she chooses. -- Huntster T • @ • C 15:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
She signs a post on EvThreads as Mrs. H -Monkey 13!!! 14:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
That's fine, and the article itself notes the change in name, but Wikipedia guidelines state that the most commonly known name should be used. "Amy Hartzler" simply isn't, nor will it likely be, the better known form of her name. She is, simply put, professionally known as "Amy Lee". -- Huntster T • @ • C 17:28, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Amy lee- Married!

I knew that Amy was engaged, but married? I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing? I have seen many an artist get married and ruin there sound with soppy lyrics. AKA: Avril Lavigne? please post your opinions on this matter.--Amylee1234 16:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

No. This is not a forum for discussion of Amy Lee. This is only for discussion of this encyclopedia article. --ElKevbo 16:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

What is her religion

What is her religion.User:Bloodsource

Unsourced information, but she is believed to be Christian. Unless it can be fully sourced, it is not worth including. Also, please do not sign your username as something other than what you are actually using. Having multiple accounts can be considered Sockpuppetry, which is highly frowned upon. See WP:SOCK. -- Huntster T • @ • C 22:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I read that Amy WAS and IS death obsesed!

Is this fully true? If so... Does this infuence her music? I see a comment in there that she said 'I am a little death obsesed, and I always have.' Or some thinglike those words. Anywho can you assist me in knowing if this is a rumor or not?216.160.166.36 16:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)EvanescenceGirl3

And how does this even remotely affect the article? This page isn't for general chat, but for issues directly affecting article content. Not to mention, there is no mention in her article about being obsessed with death, so I haven't a clue where you found that. It's not anything I've seen before. -- Huntster T • @ • C 23:15, 11 July 2007: (UTC)
Does it really matter?? Allthecoolnamesweretaken 16:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Born/Origin

I thought born and origin are from the same place. How can she be born in California, but originate from Arkansas? Speedboy Salesman 17:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Born is of course birthplace, Origin is where the person became noted for their music. In Lee's case, while she was born in Cali, she became known for her music in Arkansas. See the fields section at {{Infobox musical artist}} for a better explanation. -- Huntster T • @ • C 18:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Unpopularity

Amy Lee has lost a lot of fans and has turned on a lot of people, workmates, friends, and fans alike in different way, and no-one from the original Evanescence is around anymore, either leaving because of Amy or being fired by her, I think this should be noted, particularly as she was so popular when Fallen was released. 86.138.91.223 10:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

And how would you propose that this mentality of disgust or annoyance be presented in the article without it becoming a POV fest, and when nothing can really be cited to back up that perspective? I've lost respect like many people, but I don't feel that such POV-ness is warranted in the article. We already cite the facts as they are presented by secondary sources. -- Huntster T • @ • C 16:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
But it's not a POV. She's lost tremendous popularity in her and Evanescence's fanbase from her behaviour towards other band members, the EvBoard/give me money incident and her integrity in interviews. 86.144.172.223 22:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
That statement is POV when all you are doing is looking at the trend on a message board and judging the entire population of fans by that. It isn't backed up by any concrete facts. I would wager that the vast majority could care less what changes the band undergoes, so long as new music is occasionally put out. (But, that statement is also POV, so nevermind.) If a reliable, non-trivial source can be provided backing up that viewpoint, or simply reporting on it, then it might be something that can be included. At this point in time, however, it simply cannot. -- Huntster T • @ • C 23:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Lucky I'm not just looking at the trend of a message board. There are Amy Lee hate sites/blogs, and I've yet to meet an Evanescence fan who isn't unhappy with Amy and how she's dismantled the band or her behaviour. 86.154.67.115 09:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, that's a violation of WP:OR. You're synthesizing new data by analyzing trends on message boards and personal experience with fans. Also neither message boards or random fans meet WP:RS. Exxolon 16:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

So, what, does someone just have to find a website that publishes "Amy Lee's popularity has shot down"?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.224.12 (talk • contribs) 01:56, 6 August 2007

Well, technically yes; but it can't just be any website. Whatever goes into the article should be backed up by reliable sources, and if you find a reliable source that indicates her popularity's decline, then it can probably be noted in the article. -- SilentAria talk 18:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Like Evanescence boards full of discussion about how she's unpopular (or why she sucks) then. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.133.85.200 (talk • contribs).
No, discussion boards aren't reliable. It would need to be, say, an article in Billboard about her declining popularity. —C.Fred (talk) 21:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
It should happen eventually. The mainstream media is just slower --10:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.49.5.189 (talk)

Josh Hartzler

Is Josh Hartzler the same Joshua Hartzler who wrote the song "What About Now" along with former Evanescence members Ben Moody and David Hodges? Don't know if it is worth noting but it would be interesting to find out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.57.26 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

"Joshua Hartzler" has worked on four other songs with David Hodges and is affiliated with BMI. Here is the source of this info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.57.26 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
It would need to be proven to be the same person, and I strongly suspect they are not. Remember that Amy Lee's Josh is a therapist, not a songwriter. -- Huntster T • @ • C 00:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
He is a therapist yes, I do not know what source told you he was not a songwriter as well, so if you could share I will stop research into this subject. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.57.26 (talk • contribs) 23:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps I misspoke a bit. I meant to only say that he was a therapist, not that he definitely was not a songwriter. However, it would still have to be proven that Josh is the same as the Joshua mentioned above, before it could be included on the site. -- Huntster T • @ • C 06:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Influences

I added korn, and someone removed it. Its a well known fact, stop taking it off. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sexylui (talk • contribs) 16:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Well-known or not, it needs a citation. -- Huntster T • @ • C 21:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Its worth mentioning that Nirvana arent sourced as being an influence (though she has stated at gigs that they are) so im removing that --Childzy (Talk|Images) 21:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Didn't pay attention to that one. It had originally been added with a YouTube link as citation, but because it was not stated whether the video was copyrighted, I removed the cite. Don't remember why I didn't remove Nirvana itself. -- Huntster T • @ • C 21:49, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
You know the article is looking pretty good huntster, what you reckon needs doing to give it that push to GA? This article used to be my baby! Would love to see it as GA --Childzy (Talk|Images) 22:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't hurt to have another Peer review, though make sure that all material stated in the previous review has been taken care of. Note that it appears we're going to have ongoing difficulties with this Nirvana77 (talk · contribs) fellow adding the Nirvana bit without valid references. You want to handle this instance? -- Huntster T • @ • C 23:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Well's he's referenced it now but its just like a fansite, the source that is, personally i'd take it out. Not sure how reliable so i'll let you take a look and see what you think. Nothing wrong with a bit of the old democracy ;] --Childzy (Talk|Images) 08:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
That's the point, though. Fansites are *never, never* valid references. Don't care if it is the biggest fanclub in the world, the most detailed or accurate or whatever, fansites are never valid. Oi, sorry. This type of thing drives me inside, why people would use such links. Ah well, revert time. -- Huntster T • @ • C 16:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


Just look at korns wikipage. She covered thoughtless and said that Untouchables was the album that was infulenced all her life. Stop changing it, facts shouldnt need Citation —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.232.58.176 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

No. If it's a fact, then it needs a reference/citation, and if it influenced her entire life as you say, it wouldn't hard to find a reliable source. -- Shatterzer0 18:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Hes not saying that it infulenced her entire life, but her musical direction. ill look for a citation, but i guess everything on the page that doesnt have citation should be deleted also, even if they are confirmed facts75.4.18.100 03:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R10MRN4HGOG4Z0 there happy now? KoRn Untouchable is one of the albums she recommends to ppl that buy HER music. So stop deleting KornSexyLui 04:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


who keeps deleting it! omg Korn is an influence! WTF can someone mark that ip as a vandal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sexylui (talk • contribs) 07:30, 18 August 2007

Huntster keeps removing it because it needs a source to be added. If it is such a big deal, I am sure you can find a source. The source you provided is not allowed, as per WP:EL#Links_normally_to_be_avoided (read 4). -- Shatterzer0 04:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that KoRn should be on there... She has covered a heap of their songs, has said numerous things about them at concerts, and was on unplugged with them doing Freak on a Leech... Just because she hasn't written it down on a webpage doesn't make it any less true... That said I'm also really surprised that no one has questioned why Sound Garden isn't on there... I mean of the few concerts I've been two she did a cover of "4th of July" saying it was her all time favourite song (specifically remember that from the Brisbane, Australia 2004 concert)... I don't know about everyone else but I would consider that fairly high up there on the having influenced her music direction stakes...--TheTruePhoenix 06:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuits

I just read through the article and I noticed how it mentioned the 2005 lawsuits between Dennis Rider and Evanescence/Amy. Anyone know what the outcome of the lawsuits were, or if they're still tied up in the court system? It'd be nice to add the results to the article, if there are any. --Brownings 12:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I've heard of nothing and haven't read anything on the message boards, though its highly possible I just missed it. You may want to check out EvBoard and EvThreads yourself and ask there. -- Huntster T • @ • C 02:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)