Talk:All You Zombies—

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[edit] Title?

OK, what's the official version of the title of this story? Is it:

  • "All You Zombies"
  • "All You Zombies..."
  • "-All You Zombies-"
  • "All You Zombies-"
  • "All You Zombies-

or what? Certainly, including the double quotes in the article title goes against the Wikipedia manual of Style (although double quotes are used around short story titles within articles) -- unless, of course, there's some special reason for including them. -- The Anome 23:12, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

They are part of the title. Same thing as Bob Dylan's "Love and Theft" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Captain Wacky (talk • contribs) 08:54, 25 February 2006 UTC.
In my copy of The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag it's given variously as
  • "All You Zombies"
  • "-All You Zombies-"

It was originally published in F&SF in 1959, but I know what issue. Lefty 01:52, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)

Err -- "don't know", I mean. Lefty 04:53, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)


The title should carry an em dash at the end, all enclosed by single quotation marks (to denote that it's an excerpt from the narrator's final speech), the whole enclosed by double quotation marks (as usual for for short story titles):

" 'All You Zombies—' "

This is how it appears in the 1963 anthology The Worlds of Science Fiction, edited by Robert Mills. It also appears in this form in Alexei Panshin's Heinlein in Dimension (1968); see Panshin's own posting of this book at www.enter.net/~torve/critics/Dimension/hd04-1.html. It would be nice if all Wikipedia mentions of this title (including those not editable by users) were switched to this form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.151.217.26 (talk) 19:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page moved but content unchanged?

The page moved from "—All You Zombies—" to "All You Zombies—", but the article itself still includes both the beginning and ending mdashes. I don't know which punctuation is correct, but whichever one it is, we should be consistent between the name of the page and the text in the page. --Psiphiorg 20:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

What the hell? If the consensus is for "—All You Zombies—", then the article belongs there! "All You Zombies—" doesn't seem to be right, and I can't find any consensus on that one (without the first dash)... I tried moving, but the other page exists. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 16:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The title (yet again)

So what is the official title?

My copy of The Best of Robert Heinlein 1947-1959 lists it in the table of contents as All You Zombies (no quotes, no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".

My copy of The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathon Hoag lists it in the table of contents as "All You Zombies" (with quotes, but no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".

James Gifford's Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion gives the title as "All You Zombies--".

In a letter to Lurton Blassingame excerpted on page 156 of Grumbles From The Grave, Heinlein refers to it as "All You Zombies" (in quotes, no dashes). (As casual correspondence, though, I'm not sure that this reference counts.)

How did we settle on "All You Zombies--"? -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 05:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The best reference sources on the net appear to show that the title in the original magazine used the mdash style at the end & not the begining of the title (ie. "All You Zombies--"). The article is now consistant to that form. There is inconsistency of subsequent use - but the "first edition" is the one to quote. If anyone has access to that edition of the magazine they could check for us. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 12:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I took out this apparent original research added by User:Wellspring

"An alternative explanation for this final line is that the narrator is reminiscing about his love for two unique and pivotal characters from his life: his older male lover and his young female paramour. Although both of them are actually the narrator himself, he has experienced each as if they were another person. In effect, the man has met himself three times, each time as a stranger. In this interpretation, the story becomes a metaphor for the alienation of the self from one phase of life to another."

[edit] Neutral Wording?

"Here Heinlein is indulging in yet another of his trademark themes, that of solipsism." This is not what I would call "neutral" wording. I have rephrased it--replacing "indulging in yet another" with "revisiting one"--to remove the pejorative tone. Thanks. 75.73.21.101 15:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)Sergei Alderman

[edit] Hermaphrodite vs. intersex

I think that we should use the term that is used in the actual story. Will someone look this up in the story and make the change? — Val42 17:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Neither is actually used in the story. The idea is explained to the narrator by a doctor in a couple sentences. 212.190.219.65 13:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Then, for explanation in this article, we should use the wording used in the story. Two sentences should be "fair use". — Val42 21:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page moved?

I just noticed this was moved quite a while ago (during the edit warring over spoiler tags, when I'd unwatched it), and I'm a bit curious why, as well as why the redirect was deleted. It seems to me like the title actually includes the quotation marks, which would mean they should be part of the article title, unlike for other short stories where the quotation marks are used simply for proper grammar. Am I understanding that correctly, or not? If I am, should it be moved back to where it was? -Bbik★ 20:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who are the Zombies?

At the end of the summary I see that the zombies referred to are incorrectly identified. The "zombies" in question are not his younger selves (that's ridiculous, he IS them) nor the readers, but all people born "naturally". He knows where he comes from more intimately than any other person possibly can because he was directly involved in every aspect of his birth. A closed time-like curve. Therefore he is intrigued by anyone not having this knowledge. 71.209.88.26 (talk) 06:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)