Talk:Alien vs. Predator (film)/Archive 2

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[edit] Archived old discussion: March 31, 2007

In reading through the discussions on this talk page I noticed that most of it was several years old, related to sections of the article that no longer exist, or had nothing to do with the article at all. I was tempted to delete a lot of the content, but in the interest of harmony and impartiality I instead archived it at Talk:Alien vs. Predator (film)/Archive 1, thus freeing up this space for new discussion about the article.

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There were several problems which plagued most of the previous discussion here. The most prevalent was that a majority of the talk dealt not with the article at all, but rather consisted of reviews/opinions/rants about the film Alien vs. Predator itself. Please remember that talk pages are forums for discussion of the articles to which they are attached, and should only be used for discussing edits and changes to the article. They are not blogs on which to voice your opinions about the article's subject (in this case, the film), nor are they places to suggest original research. Finally, a great number of the archived posts were unsigned. Please remember to sign your posts so that others may know who has been editing and when.

With that said, I am adding a few subjects below which were not previously discussed but I feel should be brought up. IllaZilla 05:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of WikiProject: Norway tag

I chose to remove this tag from the talk page, though it remains in the archived discussion. This film has nothing to do with Norway outside of the fact that it is set on Bouvet Island, which is technically a dependent territory of Norway. However, the island's location and political ownership are fictionalized in the film: it is said to lie south of the southern 60th parallel and therefore to be subject to the Antarctic Treaty, meaning that no nation can claim ownership of it. In reality the island lies above the 60th parallel and is controlled by Norway, however this has no bearing on the film. The filming location was not on the actual island, nor in Norway, and the film does not reference Norway in any fashion. The article does not belong to any category that relates it to Norway either. Therefore this article does not belong in that project. IllaZilla 05:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subject material from the expanded universe

Many edits to the article's plot summary and other sections have sought to add in terms such as "Youtja," "combistick," and "Predalien." These are terms which are not used in any of the Alien or Predator films, nor are they used in the Alien vs. Predator movie. Rather, they come from the "expanded universe" of comics, video games, and other media which also use the characters and creatures from these films. As such they are not appropriate in a plot summary of the film, as they are not terms which are used in the film series and could confuse a reader who is not familiar with the rather large library of expanded universe material. The plot summary, and the article as a whole, should only contain subjects (and wherever possible, terminology) which are used the film itself. IllaZilla 05:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alien skull in the trophy case

Apparently we have an edit battle going on. I could cite other sources which mention this as being an Alien skull, such as Cinescape's ALIEN special issue which includes discussion with Dark Horse heads about the cameo and whether that came before or after the comics. So citing confirmation isn't an issue. The real question is... how is this appearance of an alien in a Predator film? It rather blatantly is, unless we're approaching the Alien and Predator as "characters," which I think is certainly debatable since the Aliens in particular are portrayed more as obstacles than characters. --Bishop2 20:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I would call both of them "creatures" rather than "characters" or "species." My objection to the way it was phrased earlier in the opening paragraph was that it said something like "...first shared appearance in a motion picture, other than the alien skull in Predator 2..." which to me just sounded somewhat unprofessional and more or less fanboy-ish. Is it worth mentioning the skull? Sure, if you're writing a section about how the concept for the movie was pitched and developed. But to stick it in the opening paragraph with that phrasing struck me as unnecessary and sort of opinionated. Even though there are sources to reference that indicate the skull was meant to be an alien, foreshadowing a future crossover of the franchises, the right place for that information isn't the opening paragraph of an article about the film Alien vs. Predator. That paragraph should stick to pertinent information about this film, giving an at-a-glance description and leading the reader to learn more in the following sections. --IllaZilla 01:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that's a reasonable view. I'm going to move the info and citations into the development section. --Bishop2 05:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AvP 2

The release date is currently listed as 25th December 2007 - surely some mistake? Conrad1on 13:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit: Actually it looks like that might be right - it just seemed wrong somehow. I can't imagine who'd be going to see a film on Christmas Day. Conrad1on 13:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Predalien-1.jpg

Image:Predalien-1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reception section

Maybe it should be enlarged remarking more criticism and fans' disappointment? There was (and is) huge criticism of this movie, that's pretty clear as I have quite followed imdb reviews and boards, many Alien or Predator fan sites and other sources. Adding it would be true to what has happened and not fan bias 83.43.153.252 12:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image

There is no image of the movie scene.--TPOTPOEENHITOppv 15:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Certificates box

I took the liberty of removing the box/list of "certificates." I don't want to devalue the hard work obviously put in by 66.67.59.10, but I felt it was long, unnecessary, and basically cluttered up the page without providing any information of real value. I took a look at a bunch of other film articles that have been featured articles, and none of them had anything like that. So I felt pretty comfortable eliminating it. Basically I don't see what the encyclopedic value is in listing the film's ratings in every country it was ever shown in. That's pretty much trivial information that could easily be found elsewhere, such as IMDB. If anyone objects and would like to make a case for putting the list back in, please do so here. --IllaZilla (talk) 09:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It might be somewhat useful because there was some furore over the rating of the film when it came out, but that could easily, and probably is, be dealt with in the article itself. Funkynusayri (talk) 09:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it would be much better discussed as prose within the article body than a long and cluttered list down the side. --IllaZilla (talk) 10:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The James Cameron Vandal

Is there any way to lock just a single sentence from editing? This one sentence about Cameron's reaction to the film is being edited into a lie 3 to 5 times daily now, and I'm getting tired of having to constantly revert it back to the truth. --Bishop2 (talk) 21:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

We can request for the article to be temporarily locked. That often discourages vandals. But I don't think there's a way to lock just a section of the article. There may be a banner tag we can put in that section which says that it has been frequently vandalised, though. In the meantime I've put a bit of hidden text in there that anyone will see when they try to edit the section. I also placed warnings on the talk pages of all the IPs which have made that edit going back a week or so (I'm assuming they're all the same person or group of people, because they're identical edits). Basically it gets down to this: you cannot alter a direct quote in order change its meaning, or to make it advance a particular point of view. I believe that is in fact libel. As it appears now, there are 2 quotes from the interview which establish that Cameron had a negative opinion of the film before it was made, and a more positive opinion of it after viewing it. If you read the interview, this is exacly what he says. So altering the quote in order to make it appear that he only ever had a negative view of the film is intentional bias. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Locking it so that only registered users could edit the page would probably be enough, and I've seen other pages do that before, so that may be an option. And oh yes, it's obviously intentional bias. I don't think there's any way that this person is somehow confusing what Cameron said. He or she obviously simply hates the fact that he said he liked the movie. But, hey, sorry. That's what the facts are. --Bishop2 (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Well it's still going on, so I've put in a request for the article to be semi-protected. --IllaZilla (talk) 10:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I saw the comment reading through and that it was incorrect so checked up on the source which showed it to be wrong. If it is some one constantly changing this the artical should be tagged as such. Shame though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.80.150 (talk) 14:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Alien

I have proposed the creation of a WikiProject to improve articles related to the Alien series, including this one. If you are interested in participating please go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Alien and add your name to the list of interested editors. If enough people are interested in starting this project, then I will move forward with it. --IllaZilla (talk) 23:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)