Talk:Alfred Edward Housman

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[edit] Included poetry

An anon. contributor included the poem "To an Athlete Dying Young", and I just fixed the misformatting due to lack of Wiki experience. However, it seems a good example of the themes in Housman's poetry so I kept it. (Copyright OK I suppose?) — Dizzley (Peter H) 06:53, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] wikiquote

the old wikiquote link worked, but the new one done through a template does not link to the correct article. i am reverting to the older version until this kink can be worked out. the new version is more aesthetically pleasing, but not functional.--Alhutch 09:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

problem solved. had to create a redirect in wikiquote from Alfred Edward Housman to A. E. Housman. the wikiquote template is back in the article and all set now.--Alhutch 09:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Should article be titled "A.E. Housman"?

He seems to be generally known as A.E. Housman. My Penguin copy of his collected works refers to him nowhere by his full name (indeed I was unaware what it was). I would perhaps rename the article and put the full name as redirect. A comparable is A.A. Milne. RandomProcess 13:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 70 years since he died

20 April 2006 is the 70th annivesary of his death, so presumably his works become public domain on 1 Jan 2007? RandomProcess 11:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] homosexual reference?

The article seems to assume common knowledge in the fact of homosexuality. However, it does not explain how or why this is known about A.E. Housman. A line or two explaining this would be a welcome addition.

Do we need citations for common knowledge? If so, use Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9041206/A-E-Housman --207.81.158.123 21:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parody of Houseman

I know of a second parody of Houseman, one which has been quoted in several books of quotations, but cannot recall the author. As it follows both Housmans pre-occupations (or the popular belief of them) and style I feel it might be included; all is needed is the author. The piece (as memory serves) goes;

What? Still alive at twenty two?
A fine, upstanding chap like you?
Why, if your throat is hard to slit,
Then slit your girls, and hang for it!

I should comment that AE is my favourite poet.LessHeard vanU 20:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

What, still alive at twenty-two,
A clean upstanding chap like you?
Sure, if your throat 'tis hard to slit,
Slit your girl's, and swing for it.
Like enough, you won't be glad,
When they come to hang you, lad:
But bacon's not the only thing
That's cured by hanging from a string.
So, when the spilt ink of the night
Spreads o'er the blotting pad of light,
Lads whose job is still to do
Shall whet their knives, and think of you.
Hugh Kingsmill

Brilliant! So close to Housman and yet so far. --Slashme 07:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

One of my mentors in academia is a Housman nut, and after I recited these four lines of Dorothy Parker (whom he also loves) to him, he said in disgust that they are satire on Housman:

I never see that prettiest thing
A cherry bough gone white with spring
But what I think, how gay 'twould be
To hang me from a flowering tree

Thought you all might like that, too.Delvebelow (talk) 21:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's very amusing, but even funnier that your mentor didn't approve... Eebahgum (talk) 12:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


Another delight is Wendy Cope's

"I think I am in love with A.E. Housman,
Which puts me in a worse-than-usual-fix.
No woman ever stood a chance with Housman,
And he’s been dead since 1936."

--Browne-Windsor (talk) 18:48, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] That young sinner

What on earth is Housman on about here:

Oh who is that young sinner with the handcuffs on his wrists?
And what has he been after that they groan and shake their fists?
And wherefore is he wearing such a conscience-stricken air?
Oh they're taking him to prison for the colour of his hair.
 
'Tis a shame to human nature, such a head of hair as his;
In the good old time 'twas hanging for the colour that it is;
Though hanging isn't bad enough and flaying would be fair
For the nameless and abominable colour of his hair.
 
Oh a deal of pains he's taken and a pretty price he's paid
To hide his poll or dye it of a mentionable shade;
But they've pulled the beggar's hat off for the world to see and stare,
And they're haling him to justice for the colour of his hair.
 
Now 'tis oakum for his fingers and the treadmill for his feet
And the quarry-gang on Portland in the cold and in the heat,
And between his spells of labour in the time he has to spare
He can curse the God that made him for the colour of his hair.

Is there something I should know about people sent to jail for their hair colour, or is this a veiled reference to gay men being sent to prison (Oscar Wilde etc.) --Slashme 06:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

It is the latter. Lord Walker of Gestingthorpe quoted from this poem in the House of Lords in 2005 in a legal case involving a same-sex couple [1], although they happened to be women in this case. See paragraph 92. --Heron 18:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it specifically about Wilde, who also had red hair, and his persecution for his sexuality?LessHeard vanU 21:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not a veiled reference to sexual orientation; rather, it is explicit. AEH makes the point that sexual orientation is no more a matter of choice than hair colour, and therefore sexual acts between men are against the law. Whether he is right may be debated, but the current law holds that he is. John Wheater 21:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Housman in film

I'm new to this and don't know how to format for Wikipedia, but wanted to add that in the 1985 movie "Out of Africa", Karen Blixen/Isak Dinesen (Meryl Streep) read the poem To an Athlete Dying Young over the grave of Denys Finch Hatton (Robert Redford).


[edit] C20th Music

Why does David Downes have a different para to all the great composers listed in the music section? One for music, one for 'other': Either it's C20th music or it's not. It also seems an unbalanced amount of information for someone with no entry for themselves, when compared to the list of names prior. --Rob2000 09:55, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Whilst I am unfamiliar with Mr Downes, is it possible that he is not a composer in the classical style - and some individuals do not like their music tainted by those who work in the beat/popular field.LessHeard vanU 10:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Whoa there. The sub-title isn't 20th Century Music. It's 20th Century British music. The section is about the remarkable impact of Housman's poetry on composers of a particular place and time. Arguably, Housman was second only to Shakespeare in this respect. This is not to say there shouldn't also be a discussion of Housman settings from other places and/or times, such as the David Downes piece cited, or Samuel Barber's With rue my heart is laden. If you know such repertoire, and better still can summarise and cite or link to articles on Housman's wider influence, then I'd strongly encourage you to improve an already good article.
We might like to create a seperate page for repertoire lists, and keep this article for discussion of Housman's influence, and the reasons for his popularity with particular groups of composers. Also, it will help if any further comment on this topic is made on the assumption of good faith. Countersubject 11:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I can see the point made by Rob2000, as subdivisions of a header they are unbalanced; one paragraph for a group of notable composers, one paragraph for one musician without a Wiki entry (though this in itself is no indication of <lack of> quality, it should be noted!). Perhaps the subheadings should be removed and placed within the text of each paragraph, and then be re-instated when the paragraphs are expanded and other examples given?LessHeard vanU 13:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Done. I've also added a couple of other examples, as part of a note on interest in the poetry from composers of other places and times. And I also took the opportunity to create a stub on David Downes! Countersubject 15:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Excellent. Great work!LessHeard vanU 16:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Good job editors!--Rob2000 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Out of Africa

The Meryl Streep character also makes a toast to rose-lipped maidens & lightfoot lads, so there are at least two AE Housman references in the movie. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.241.229.183 (talk) 03:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] King Edward's School

But which King Edward's School? There are several in the West Midlands alone. This needs disambiguating. 86.132.137.197 02:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Chaeronea

Material about his membership of Order of Chaeronea was an error. A.E. Housman was here confused with his gay brother.—Preceding unsigned comment added by JamieON (talk • contribs)

Where is this Order mentioned in the text? Also, A.E. was (very likely) gay so why his brother and not him? LessHeard vanU 06:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
JamieON removed the comment about it. It was unsourced regardless. Seing as it is now up for contention, it should not be replaced unless a source can be found. The Jade Knight 10:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, there are currently no sources referenced which claim that Housman was gay. The Jade Knight 10:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Synopsis

I have transferred the 'synopsis' of A Shropshire Lad which I originally wrote for this article, from this article to the A Shropshire Lad article, where its suitability or otherwise may be discussed if necessary at the article discussion page there. Eebahgum (talk) 10:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

...(sound of advancing footsteps) "Oh, alright...!" ...(sound of receding footsteps) LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)