Talk:Alec Guinness

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[edit] Monsignor Quixote

What role did Alec Guinness play in Monsignor Quixote? Was it the title role? I would appreciate it if this was included in the article.

Yes, Guiness played Quixote with Leo McKern as Sancho. McKern was in A Foreign Field as Guiness' friend. Both are extremely well done and deserve to be better known. JimCubb 00:57, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

Knighted by Queen Elizabeth II, Sir Alec Guiness died of liver cancer on August 5, 2000.

What has his death from cancer to do with his being knighted by the Queen?

Sebastjan


[edit] Knighthood

what order of knighthood did he get?

From Knight Bachelor:

"Knights Bachelor are not entitled to use post-nominal letters after their name." Ben davison 21:49, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

In fact, he was a Knight of the Order of the British Empire, ie. KBE. JackofOz 08:15, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Guinness was a knight bachelor NOT a KBE. As Ben davison days, knights bachelor do not belong to an order and are not entitled to post-nominal initials. Guinness was, however, a Commander of the Order of the British Empire, entitling him to CBE after his name. The fact that he was then made a knight bachelor does not make him into a KBE (which is a higher award) ! In fact, a knighthood bachelor and a CBE is not an uncommon combination for distinguished actors. The only British actor I know of who has received a KBE in recent years is Sir Roger Moore. Dcrossle 11:44, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Antony Sher is also a KBE. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Star Wars Photo

Does anyone else feel like it's wrong to have a Star Wars photo of him on the page? This came to me while I was watching Ep. III and thinking, "Man he would hate this if he was still alive." Stratton 09:19, May 29, 2005 (UTC)--

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an autobiography. Millions of younger moviegoers were introduced to him through Star Wars, so I'd say it's not only appropriate to have a Star Wars pic, but necessary, whether he would like it or not. The article mentions his dislike of the series, after all. --Chrysaor 22:48, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the first user. Alec Guinness hated Star Wars, so putting a photo of him from that movie is like sticking a dagger in his stomach. Since the article is not just about the Alec Guinness the actor but Alec Guinness the person off the movie set, I think a candid photo of him would be most appropriate.
A bit on the fence with this. Guinness would have hated it, but this isn't an autobio, and the Obi-Wan role did introduce him to a new generation. How about adding additional photos: a candid shot, as suggested, or maybe one from the Ealing years, one from Lawrence of Arabia, and one from Bridge on the River Kwai. That should cover all the bases, and diminishes the impact of seeing a photo the man himself would have disapproved of. Canonblack 16:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
We should certainly have a Star Wars photo on the page, but not as the heading photo (Wookeepedia has an out-of-character photo in their article[1]. As to Alec Guinness "hating" Star Wars, the impression I got was that he liked the role, but disliked the tendency of people to always recognise him as Obi-Wan Kenobi, after all the previous work he'd done (Kind Hearts and Coronets, Bridge on the River Kwai, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, etc, etc...) MartinMcCann 23:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd have to say that using the Star Wars image is a pretty shortsighted gesture. It is certainly no representation of the man's career or of his acting ability, and I'm guessing it was chosen by someone with a skewed view of the man's life and work. We might as well represent Richard E Grant with an image from SPICEWORLD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.27.213 (talk) 10:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Catholic

The article currently read "it is not known if their minor aged son Matthew converted at the same time". According to a BBC interview Guinness gave in 1977 Matthew went to a private school in which was run by the catholics and althought his parents innitially disapproved of this he was allowed to attend. After a while Matthew decided to convert and his parents followed him.

I have this interview on tape but haven't watched it in a few years (I recorded it in Enland on a PAL cassette and I am now in Canada with an NTSC VRC). In his last autobiography Guinness stated it was his big regret that he did not make the decision to become a Catholic sooner in his life.

Just thought I would point this out. Dowew 17:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll try to get a picture of the graves of the Guinnesses.


[edit] The Port is with you

Here's a weird fact. Just now watched Kind Hearts and Coronets, and between 53 and 54 minutes in, Alec Guinness, playing this time the somewhat demented rector of the church, after both had been drinking, says to Dennis Price, "My Lord, the Port is with you." I had to listen to this three times to get the wording right.

This is eerily close to Obi-Wan Kenobi's comment to Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, "Luke, the Force is with you." One wonders if it is not deliberate. Does it deserve mention in Kind Hearts and Coronets or the Star Wars or the Alec Guinness article? I don't know. Bill Jefferys 02:56, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Obi-Wan (as played by Guinness) only ever says "the Force will be with you, always".
Sign your comments. Guinness only ever says, "The force will be with you, always," near the end of the film after the destruction of the Death Star. He says a great many other things about the force in many different ways throughout the film. It's entirely possible that he did say, "Luke, the force is with you," although I don't specifically remember it. That said, I think trying to create a bridge between Kind Hearts... and Star Wars is a bit of a stretch. Unless someone can come up with a quote in support, or the line from Kind Hearts... is extremely well-known in Britain to the present day, I think it's safe to say it's a coincidence. But it's amusing for its own sake. Canonblack 16:40, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sexual controversy?

There is a small bit of controversy concerning his sexual orientation. Nothing has been substantiated, but should the presence of controversy and debate be mentioned here? The "visible evidence" (happily married with one child for 60+ years) supports the mainstream interpretation that he was a normal heterosexual. But he was known for making statements to the effect that he had had homosexual relations prior to his marriage. Several authors have published posthumous biographies that attempt to "prove" that he was homosexual. Simon Callow, who knew him, has stated that Guinness may have been homosexual or bisexual but that he chose to live his life as a heterosexual; Callow also implied that Guinness liked to be a bit mysterious and had a tendency to describe himself so as to deliberately mislead, and that he believed Guinness really didn't have much of a sex life at all, not even with his wife. The "facts" in the case are hearsay, but should the existence of controversy be noted? Would an adequate explanation take more proportional space in an article of this size than is warranted by its value? Canonblack 17:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I added a section on this, if only to dismiss it, but if you guys have a problem with it, feel free to remove. (ExtraordinaryMan having forgotten to log in.) --152.163.100.199 13:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not certain what you are suggesting? There was a rumor going around for years that he was arrested in a men's room when the rumor was investigated by researchers there was found to be no truth in the matter. Another actor John Gielgud on the otherhand was actually arrested in a men's room.
The only controversy seems to be one created by others theories and suggestions. If there is no solid evidence that Alec Guinness was bi-sexual or homosexual and if no writings or recorded statements were made by Guinness say that he was then why is this even being discussed?
Does the fact that he was an English stage actor who had many stage actor friends some who happened to be homosexual mean that he was one himself? Speculation of this sort seems to be just that and is irrelevant for an article of this scope and type. Plank 17:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Some information about his arrest on this page: [2] (Quoting from page): In 1946 he had been arrested and fined ten guineas for a homosexual act in a public lavatory in Liverpool, but he avoided publicity by giving his name as Herbert Pocket to the police and the court. The name was taken from the character in Charles Dickens's Great Expectations that he had played on stage in 1939 and was also about to play in the film directed by David Lean. The incident did not become public knowledge, unlike that of John Gielgud seven years later in 1953 which received a great deal of press attention. Also: "Last night Mr Morley - son of the actor Robert Morley, a Gielgud contemporary - said Guinness's gay side had 'always been known' to his father and family friends in the theatre such as Dame Gladys Cooper." 69.95.115.154 04:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

In an [3]entry on his psedo-blog, Ian McKellen describes a lunch he had with Guinness where he sought Guinness' support for his gay rights campaign. McKellen say that Guinness replied that "It was not appropriate for gay people to talk publicly about their sexuality nor to campaign openly for law reform." Between the lines, McKellen seems to be saying that Guinness was closeted and discreet about his sexuality, but this could also be taken as evidence of a conservative Catholic opposition to homosexuality. McKellen then mentions that Guinness partially bankrolled the professional training of the openly gay Ian Charleson, the co-lead of Chariots of Fire, who died of AIDS in 1990. This too seems like a between-the-lines allegation of gayness, but others have cited this as merely an example of a well-documented tendency to lend his support to up-and-coming actors whose work he admired.--Andrewjnyc 20:24, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone considered actually reading Guinness's authorized biography by Piers Paul Read? At this point, Guinness's orientation is not a matter of controversy, except possibly among squeamish homophobes. --Chips Critic 03:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Everybody knows Sir Alec was a latent homosexual, it really should be included in the article.

And your evidence for this assertion is...? -- Necrothesp 14:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Er, the fact that his marriage was one of convenience and he had sex with many other actors including Laurence Olivier, John Gielgud, Charles Laughton, Richard Burton, Noel Coward, Dirk Bogarde etc. Sorry homophobic fans of "Star Wars", but you can't change the fact Sir Alec was gay. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.101 (talk • contribs) .

"Everbody knows" is an euphanism for "I can't prove it" Agathoclea 17:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Since we are talking about events which took place 60 and 70 years ago, it is very difficult to provide hard evidence. Most of Sir Alec's friends and boyfriends are dead. Next I expect you will say Laughton and Bogarde were straight.

And if you have no evidence then it does not belong in an encyclopaedia. Making wild claims that you can't prove and then accusing people who disagree of being homophobic is more than faintly ridiculous. -- Necrothesp 00:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
With appropriate citations, I would have no trouble believing Guinness had his way with Olivier, Gielgud, Laughton, Coward and Bogarde. But Richard Burton?? I've never heard he had a gay bone in his body, and there's nothing in our article about this. JackofOz 01:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

"Perhaps most actors are latent homosexuals and we cover it with drink. I was once a homosexual, but it didn't work." - Richard Burton

That is hardly evidence of anything except a kind of bitter, sardonic wit. :--) JackofOz 12:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The latest authorized biography proves that there was absolutely no evidence to support the rumor that Guinness was arrested in the 1950's and gave his name as Herbert Pocket. In fact, the author speculated that John Gielgud was really arrested for having sex in a men's room in the '50's and believes that it was this real event that was repackaged and spread about as if it was Guinness. Dwain 16:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

You deliberately withhold the fact that this same authorized biography makes it quite clear that Guinness was essentially gay. This article is worthless until it acknowledges the truth. --Chips Critic 23:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I object to the phrase at the top stating that "he was a normal heterosexual", but that's just a San Franciscan talking. Secondly, I've seen sections similar to this on the talk pages of many famous people, so you'll pardon me if I have a tendency to disregard this upon reading the first paragraph... -- Maethon (talk) 20:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I've dug out an old newspaper clipping of an article written by John Ezard in the Guardian, reprinted in The Canberra Times, 18 April 2001. It's about Guinness's 1946 prosecution under the alias "Herbert Pocket" being about to be disclosed in no less than 3 (then) upcoming biographies - Sheridan Morley's authorised biog to published on 3 May 2001; Piers Paul Read's authorised biography; and another biography by Garry O'Connor. Quote from the article: Mr Morley - son of the actor Robert Morley - said Sir Alec's gay side had "always been known" to his father and friends in the theatre. "As a character actor he was a sort of spy, which made him good at deception in life as well as art", Mr Morley said. "He was keeping secret this other side of his life. He was very, very high church". In 1946 Sir Alec was happily married with a young son. "If the case had come out, it would have traumatised him", Mr Morley said. So, if 3 of his biographers (2 of whom are authorised) have no trouble in reporting these facts, why should we? This has nothing to do with labelling Guinness as gay, straight, bisexual or anything - it has everything to do with reporting factual material about his life. -- JackofOz 06:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I've had a personal experience which can shed some light into this matter. Back in 1976, my girlfriend at the time - her name was Anne Marie - and I went to see Harold Pinter's play "No Man's Land" at the Wyndham Theatre in London. A great play and a brilliant cast, led by Sir Ralph Richardson and Sir John Gielgud. Curtain down, we rushed backstage to meet the actors, as unabashed groupies. At one point, we were talking to Gielgud when Anne Marie, rather insouciantly, asked him if he was really gay (!!). I was appalled, and ready to dig a hole in the ground and disappear in it. But before I could do or say anything, Gielgud looked Anne Marie straight in the eyeball and said: "Yes. But it could be worse: I might not know exactly where I am, like Larry Olivier and Alec Guinness." Gielgud made this sardonic remark point blank and without the slightest hint of irritation. Quite remarkable. Unfortunately, all I have to show for this story now is my word, but there it is. MUSIKVEREIN 01:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I have no difficulty in believing that, Musikverein. And now it's out there, for all the world to read. How long did it take you to wash the hand that shook Gielgud's? -- JackofOz 01:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Jack, it was really something. Even today, more than thirty years on, I show a proud smile every time I have the opportunity to tell anybody that I once met Gielgud and Richardson (in spite of the embarassment caused by Anne Marie's nonchalance...). Incidentally, Alec Guinness is one of my very favourite actors, and I also had the honour of meeting him right after a presentation of Alan Bennett's "Habeascorpus" in 1974 (Lyric Theatre, London). I even got his autograph on the programme notes. Only this time I was alone, so no clumsy situation ensued ! MUSIKVEREIN 01:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Cool. -- JackofOz 01:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
For one thing, everyone today thinks everyone back in the day was gay. There are people who believe the Biblical person of King David was gay/bi, there are people who believe Herman Melville was gay/bi, etc. There will always be people who say someone else is gay. Now, as for it being said that... "Since we are talking about events which took place 60 and 70 years ago, it is very difficult to provide hard evidence. Most of Sir Alec's friends and boyfriends are dead." That's nothing. We know Oscar Wilde was gay/bi, and that was well voer 100 years ago. Also, Ian McKellen never said Guinness was gay. Rather whoever said that is implying that he was from what he read about what someone else had said. Confusing? Yeah. Just because [This Actor] says that [This Actor] is gay means nothing, less he acknowledges it. Now... also... I've met Dale Thompson of Bride, does that mean I know everything about the guy? No. Does that make me his very best friend? I doubt it. IronCrow 00:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it was an open secret that Sir Alec Guinness was a homosexual. His close friends Jack Hawkins and Dirk Bogarde were certainly aware of it, and had no problem with that. (92.11.186.53 (talk) 17:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Amusing Tidbit

Dunno if it can be worked into the article, but a neat anagram of Alec Guinness is "Genuine Class" :)

[edit] James Dean

Is it worth including something about A.G. telling James Dean (outside the Villa Capri) he'd be dead in no time if he got into the car that, in fact, he died in just days later?

Just a thought. It isn't mentioned in Dean's article, either.

G 05:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia section

I did a cleanup of the Trivia section. The first two were simple: They were merely references by a charachter (Lisa from the Simpsons, and Lorenzo from Double Star, respectively) in an otherwise unrelated work of fiction mentioning the name of an internationally recognized actor, and clearly non-notable.

I left the remaining two points, as it might be possible to work them into the text somewhere. It should be easy to work the point on his love-hate relationship with star wars into the Star Wars section. The only reason I didn't do it now myself, is that the point is not sourced. If we can get a reference for this point and work it into the text, fine. Otherwise I say delete it.

The point on Stanley Laurel could possibly be worked into the beginning of the "life and career" section. I don't know how good and encyclopedic it would be though. For now, I left the point here. If someone feels this piece of information is vital to an article on Alec Guiness, please work it into the text at an appropriate place. If no one is interested in doing this, or able to do it in a good way, I say we delete this point too.

To those who disagree, please read wikipedia:trivia before re-adding or adding to the trivia-section.Dr bab 07:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Songs

Lemon Demon wrote a neat song titled Gonna Dig Up Alec Guinness with around a billion Star Wars references. Cookies to all if this can be worked into the article. -- Maethon (talk) 20:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Star Wars section

A small quibble with this part:

"Guinness reportedly grew so tired of modern audiences seeming to remember him only for his role of Obi-Wan Kenobi that he would throw away unopened the fan mail he received from Star Wars fans."

If is was unopened, how did he know it was from Star Wars fans? 87.127.166.59 17:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That is a good question and the whole line should be removed or marked with a cite tag. The answer is, of course, that he felt a tremor in "THE FORCE" whenever he held an envelope that was from a Star Wars fan (Sorry I just couldn't resist!) :)) MarnetteD | Talk 17:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the citation McGeddon though it still doesn't answer the IP users question. Do you think Lucas let him keep a light saber as a letter opener (ok these jokes are getting pretty bad now). MarnetteD | Talk 19:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I didn't notice the talk page discussion - the edit summary just asked "reported by whom", and the context of the source didn't seem to merit a "reportedly". Perhaps the fan mail was marked as being forwarded from the Star Wars production company, perhaps his agent skimmed the envelopes and resealed them, perhaps he just threw away anything that was obviously Star Wars fan mail from the envelope. --McGeddon 09:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Mail addressed to Obi Wan, for example?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.180.141.101 (talk • contribs)

I believe the actual claim is that he threw away letters from Star Wars fans unread, not unopened. Although, there could very well be indications on the envelope as to the contents. I would like to ask someone to clarify this: "In the DVD commentary of Star Wars: A New Hope, director George Lucas says that Guinness was not happy with the script re-write in which Obi-Wan is killed". What exactly is said in the commentary? That implies he was unhappy with the death of Obi Wan, but it could mean something else. In any case, it was widely publicised that Guinness said in an interview that the death of Obi Wan was his own invention. Eradicator (talk) 08:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guinness married the artist, playwright, and actress, Merula Salaman, a British Jew, in 1938

... and the relevance of this religious reference is? Like... this is 2007... yeah???

The relevance can be seen in the next paragraph concerning their conversion to Roman catholicism.
Without mentioning she was a British Jew, one might ask "From what?" when they read about her conversion. 84.251.206.243 05:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An Inspector Calls

There's no reference to Alec starring as Eric Birling in J.B.Priestley's 'An Inspector Calls'. He was in the first ever London production on 1 October 1946 at the New Theatre. Sophiaaa.x 21:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:YoungSirAlecGuinness.jpg

Image:YoungSirAlecGuinness.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ewan McGregor

Someone told me that Guiness is related to Ewan McGregor (the actor from the Prequal Trilogy), is this true? Emperor001 (talk) 17:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Ewan McGregor is the nephew of Denis Lawson, had played Wedge Antilles in the original trilogy. --P3d0 (talk) 20:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)