Talk:Air Training Corps

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[edit] Air Commodore Chamier

Might I point out that it is an absolute disgrace that Air Commodore Chamier has got a few sentences for his STUB article. It needs to be expanded immediately. Even an ACP would provide more information. Dev920 23:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have expanded the article for Chamier. Feedback and revisions welcomed Pastbury 22:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squadron Links

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that there is no need for the long (and growing) list of links to squadron websites. A single link to the complete list at the main HQAC website would in my opinion be far neater. If nobody objects I shall remove these links at some point. Sc147 20:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Law9181 18:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC) : maybe there should be a specail page for these links?


I removed these links from the main page:

[edit] Links to ATC Squadron websites

[edit] Links to ATC Wing websites

[edit] Links to ATC Region websites

[edit] Links to ATC Region special interest web sites

Sc147 15:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General Point

Can people please make sure that when altering information they get it correct. There is no obligation to attend and course for Instructor Cadets, JNCOs or SNCOs. These are local rules and do not apply to the whole corps. As well as this can people please avoid making points which relate to their squadron only, such as rules for the wearing of Stable Belts etc.


RE: Courses for Instuctor Cadets [ http://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/news_laser.htm]

Quote form ATC site on the laser review

7. A training course for Instructor Cadets will be introduced for delivery at wing level under the standardisation of the Rgnl Trg Off. This will be designed in the main to teach responsibilities as an adult and as a supervisor.


I feel you may also want to get your infomation correct.


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[edit] Content

I feel the content of this wiki is in danger of becoming too convoluted or "syrupy". There is a fair bit of superfluous information creeping in that is simply bogging down the topic.

An encyclopaedia is a reference of information; somewhere where people look to develop their understanding of a topic. It is not a rule book or a collection of guidelines. It should provide the knowledge, sometimes opinionated I will warrant, that helps educate and that folk may refer to for information. It is after all a reference document. For example publishing ATC orders concerning stable belts do not, I feel, belong here. The wiki / encyclopaedia should give background, ethos and objectives when talking about an organisation. Not rules and orders that: concerns only those within the organisation, are already distributed through trusted formal channels, periodically change and do not not add to the general education of the reader.

The primary audience are those that know little or nothing about the ATC. True the majority who come here will be our own people, but that is not why the document is published here.

CI Houston, 287 Sqn

[edit] Stable Belts

Further to the stable belt comment on the main page. The info there is false. Stable belts are not scaled items however can be purchased privately. They may be worn at any time prior to uniformity being maintained. In practice this usually means NCO's only but in theory cadets can wear them.

Cadets most certainly are allowed to wear them the reference to the RAF Regt may be with regard to the RAF regt Clasp which obvoisly we cannot wear.

Also another point is they should not be worn with greens (except during Nijmegen where normal dress regs go out the window)



--Abjm 18:28, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I am going to say once and for all that there are NO rank restrictions on the wearing of the RAF stable belt in national regulations. According to ACP20B ACAI204 :Dress regulations for the Air Training Corps, all cadets may wear the stable belt. Local orders may place a rank restriction on the wearing of the stable belt, but they are exactly that, local orders, and need not be included in this article. Rob 301 17:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Does it say in any guideline or ACP or rules and regultions that any NCO or member of staff is allowed to swear at a cadet im just wondering because i see it a lot in all squadrons i have been in and i find it disgusting myself because most people join the Air Cadets because they want to learn things about military and gain life skills and if a child joins the ATC i honenstly doubt he/she would want to hear any verbal abuse or foul language and i think this subject should actually discussed in squadrons and by wing

09/6/06

I remember a LOT of swearing by the NCOs from my time in cadets, not so much from the officers though and I don't remember an officer ever verbally abusing someone. Mind you, the NCOs themselves are mostly children too and I certainly heard a lot worse in the playground. --JamesTheNumberless 16:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

A: ACP 1 - Ethos, Core Values and Standards in the ACO

This contains the details of what is acceptable. I think the problem is that in the millitary it is part of life and being in the ATC be take part of that on. My basic guide is that swearing is not a big issue however swearing at someone is, verbal abuse.

Hi, link was broken, now fixed :)
Cpl Bishop, 304 Sqn --Lukebishop 14:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] GP Jackets

I have deleted the line "*Cadets may also purchase General Purpose (GP) jackets" from the Uniform section - cadets may not wear GP Jackets, they are not optional items such as stable belts.

I think this must vary from squadron to squadron. I have know squadrons that will give out GPJs to all cadets, but my own squadron restricted them to SNCOs. (alihaig)130.246.132.26 15:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I am almost certain that there is no variation on this, certainly the GP Jacket is not mentioned in ACAI 204, which lists all items of uniform which cadets are permitted to wear and I believe it was promulgated in Corps Routine Orders (CROs) a while back that GPJs are not to be worn by cadets. This issue goes back to the age old debate about 'COs discretion' about certain items of uniform, i.e short sleeved shirts for cadets (not allowed), some COs discretion exists with regards to issues such as the wearing or not of the stable belt, however, this is listed as an optional item in ACAI 204, the GPJ is not. However I am of course happy to be corrected. Rob 301 17:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ensign and Images

I have moved the sentence about the ATC ensign that was at the very start of the article, to its own section, as it didnt make any sense where it was. I have also expanded it slightly as the practice of hoisting the ensign on parade nights was not apparant in my area when I was a cadet. If anyone has a picture or any more information it could do with some expansion. (alihaig)130.246.132.26 16:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I have also changed the formatting of the main image at the top of the article so it looks the same as images on other wiki articles (with the frame etc). I think it would be good to get a couple more images up here, maybe in the uniform and ranks section, to show what cadets look like and what the ranks look like, and also maybe one or two "action" shots to show what cadets do (a picture of a parade for example). (alihaig)130.246.132.26 16:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Squadron Links

Maybe a section on how to make your uniform look the correct standard would be a good idea. I'm a new cadet and am not good at it!

That is a possible idea however in my opinion that would not really be appropriate for an encyclopedia. There are many unofficial ATC websites and forums which can provide you with that kind of advice. Or you could ask the Cadet NCOs on your squadron for advice. Rob 301 17:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Air Cadet Publications

Large chunks of this article seem to be copied word-for-word from Air Cadet Publication 31. Is this considered acceptable? An electronic version of the publication is available from http://192.5.30.122/aircadets/pdf/acp31sec1.pdf I think that perhaps it is acceptable because non-classified ACPs are Crown Copyright and therefore in the public domain, or does this article need rephrasing so that it is paraphrasing the ACPs rather than copying outright?Pastbury 22:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Addition: It would seem that Crown Copyright is not public domain as the government has publically stated that it is not compatible with the GNU documentation license. So the sections of this article which are directly lifted from ACPs (such as the history section) will need rewriting. I will have a go at this but if any other more experienced wikipedians want to join me then feel free to edit this page. Pastbury 10:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect use of this talk page

I think it is great that cadets are viewing this article and its associated discussion, but please remember this is NOT a discussion forum for matters to do with the organisation, its purpose is to discuss changes within the article. Please keep questions to do with Corps matters for other cadets/ncos/staff, or use the ATC forums.

thanks, Cpl Bishop

--Lukebishop 14:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect Image

The image in this article claiming to be a Grob Viking winch-launched glider is in actual fact an ASW 19. If anyone has a correct image and the associated license, can they please change it? I would change it myself, but I do not have an image with the associated permissions required to upload it.

Thanks, Cpl Bishop

--Lukebishop 14:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squadron Padre

Please could someone add some information about the role of a squadron Padre. I believe that the Padre holds the rank of Flight Lieutenant. Is this an honorary rank? Can / must a Padre wear a uniform? what tasks does the Padre typically undertake? Do any of these things vary depending on whether the Padre is ordained or lay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.0.46 (talk) 17:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I thought they held the honourary rank of Sqn Ldr? 81.111.130.176 (talk) 21:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flying Scholarships

This section seems to of been copied directly from a website advertising the Flying Scholarships. Gaia Octavia Agrippa (talk) 20:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Officer Cadet

Officer cadets are not a commisioned rank? At least I didn't think they were, but they are listed in the article, perhaps someone else can confirm and change accordingly?81.111.130.176 (talk) 21:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)