Talk:Age of Discovery

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Contents

[edit] Improvement drive

A related topic, spice trade, is currently nominated on WP:IDRIVE. Support or comment on the nomination there if you are interested.--Fenice 09:36, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Conquest of Siberia

See also History_of_Siberia#Yermak_and_the_Cossacks --ajvol 13:16, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ioann IV the Terrible

If you ranames Ioann IV the Terrible to Ivan IV the Terrible, why not to rename Nicolas II to Nikolay II?--Nixer 12:40, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't follow your analogy. In both cases, I am following the common English-language usage. They are known in English as Ivan and Nicholas, respectively. I have literally never seen Ioann in an English-language text by a native speaker. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Nicholas is neither an official name, nor a popular.--Nixer 14:16, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure I follow that remark. Nicholas is the normal name of in English for tsars named Николай. See, for example, http://www.nicholasandalexandra.com/ (a site developed jointly with the Hermitage Museum), Nicholas and Alexandra (bestselling book by Robert K. Massie, and a 1971 film based on that book). -- Jmabel | Talk 00:23, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Look at this for example: [1] In 1570 there appeared the official mentioning of the meeting between Russian Tsar Ioann (IV) the Terrible and Calvinist Pastor Rockita who arrived from Poland as a member of the delegation of king Sigizmund August.. Or here:[2] There are the remains of Russian Emperors from Peter I to Nikolai II and members of their families (excluding Peter II and Ioann IV). Here: [3] for example, Ioann IV wrote decrees to the CyrilloBeloozersk monastery against the disorders that were After the terrible Moscow fire o 1547 Ioann IV publicly addressed Metropolitan Macarius with these words: Here are not tsars, but patriarchs: http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/resources/hierarchs/russia.htm]--Nixer 00:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm not saying the others are never used. I'm saying that they are uncommon in English, and not the names by which the average educated native English speaker would know these people. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Third Opinion

Since you continue to revert me, and I do not feel you have presented a good case to do so, I will bring this to WP:3O [added by Jmabel]

I found this request for a third opinion in the dispute and budding edit war between Jmabel and Nixer. I have reviewed the main page, this talk page, and the edit histories, as well as the references given. My ruling on the matter is that this is the English language Wikepedia, and that since the vast majority of native speakers of English, in trying to find information about a certain person, will do a search for "Ivan" and not "Ioann" (never heard of it before today), this article should refer to the person as "Ivan" in all of the main references. (I have no objections to parenthetical references, such as this, noting that the person's name is sometimes spelled "Ioann".) Nixer, please stop reverting the page to the "Ioann" form. Feel free to link this page to the Russian language Wikipedia, but stop trying to change the way the English-speaking world spells the name. [I will delete the request for a third opinion, and I hope this settles the dispute.] Aumakua 03:41, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I cited the sources above, which call him Ioann. Also a text under picture in the Ivan the Terrible article calls him Ioann (I am not the author of this text). It indicates that many people are more fomiliar with this name. Besides it is more correct.--Nixer 05:27, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
While I don't have 'Googlecountitis' and would never make a final decision based solely on that, I think it is informative to see what the number is, sometimes. A Google search on English pages (this is the English Wikipedia after all) for "Ivan the terrible" and "Ioann the terrible" shows a difference of about 356 THOUSAND to 145. Go convince those 356 THOUSAND people that a name they've never heard of is "more correct" and get back to us. Meanwhile, I've given my third opinion, which is the first and hopefully the last step in dispute resolution between reasonable people. If you absolutely insist that it has to say "Ioann" here, take it up with a mediator -- but do not revert it to Ioann unless you can show a lot better reason than you have so far, and get a consensus that you are right, first. This is my last word on the subject; I just dropped in to try to help settle a dispute, not to get embroiled in it. Aumakua 06:54, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Before the Portuguese?

The Portuguese voyages in the Atlantic were preceded by the Aragonese voyages and conquests in the Western Mediterranean and in parts of the Atlantic, such as the Canary Islands. Some Italian cities (which had built their own naval empires in the Eastern Mediterranean, as an offshoot of the Crusades) also participated in the early voyages of the Portuguese. It might be good to make a reference to these precursors and collaborators of the Age of Discoveries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.136.232.3 (talk • contribs) 20 Jan 2006.

Largely concur, although that characterization "Aragonese" seems misleading. Aragon itself was inland. The mariners in territories ruled by the Crown of Aragon were Catalan, Valencian, or Balear. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what date and month was Ferdinand Magellan born

This section head was here with no question. The Ferdinand Magellan article says spring 1480. I doubt anything more accurate is known. - Jmabel | Talk 06:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


Um, just so you know, Native Americans were in America waaaaaayyyyyy before Columbus "discovered" it. talk

And oxygen existed for billions of years before Lavoisier "discovered" it. These things always relate to a particular perspective. - Jmabel | Talk 23:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exploration by land

Should exploration by land section be merged with conquest of Siberia?--Nixer 09:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] James Cook

I notice that James Cook was added to the lead paragraph, and since it was there I linked it. Certainly an important explorer, but isn't he a bit late for the era we are mainly talking about? One could just as well continue it down to Lord Franklin. Or Henry Morton Stanley. - Jmabel | Talk 05:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

He certainly doesn't belong there in the way that this article is defined, covering discoveries only up through the early 1600s. I'm going to delete him. He is mentioned at a later point in the article, though I'll leave that since it's clearly presented an afterthought to give greater context to the specific period covered here. 69.108.230.116 16:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conquest of Siberia

I don't agree to attribute it to the Age of Discovery,at least the Mongols had know perfectly the Siberia before the russian to conquer it.It is only a reconquer not a conquer.Ksyrie December 11, 2006

[edit] Chinese Exploration

Although very interesting and important, the section "Chinese Exploration" has - to my opinion - not much to do with the "Age of Discovery", which is a western/European development in history. I suggest it to split the section "Chinese Exploration" into a new article. Demophon 06:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. - SimonP 12:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I think I'll be up to the challenge of creating a new article for it.--PericlesofAthens 19:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Done.--PericlesofAthens 19:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Explorers do be used as example

Following the removal of some names by Jim.henderson, I believe we should still use Pedro Alvares Cabral since he was the first European to reach what is now Brazil. Although he is less famous, we should not make him less famous by not using him as an example. SalvadorFernandesZarco

Actually it was User:SimonP who removed that name and a great many others. I wouldn't mind taking credit for it, but we mustn't claim someone else's good work. Where I went wrong was in leaving Cabral and his fellows in the intro. The intro should be short, and this worthy but unfortunately little known (among English speakers) figure ought to be omitted from it. Indeed, to improve the list in the introductory paragraph, I would trim out both Cabral and Cabot. We can't put every brave and clever 16th century explorer in the intro; that's why we have a whole article rather than just a long intro. Besides, if I'm counting correctly, Cabral's name is mentioned five times, in more than one section of the article and a caption. That's plenty. To give the fellow full justice requires giving him a whole article; just not this one. Jim.henderson 23:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change the name of this article to "Age of Exploration"?

Due to the fact that the lands that were explored by europeans during this age were already "discovered" (if you will) by native peoples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.38.226 (talk) 04:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What was in it for the Mongols?

The article says: "Mongol states also unified much of Eurasia creating trade routes and communication lines stretching from the Middle East to China.[citation needed] A series of Europeans took advantage of these to explore eastwards."

How did the Europeans "take advantage" of the trade routes? The Mongols must have had some reason for letting them through. Can someone please explain what was in it for the Mongols? HeWasCalledYClept (talk) 17:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)