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[edit] Crash information needed
We need more information about crashes. I added a recent crash, from Melbourne Australia[1], but someone deleted it because apparently the source is non-notable. There are a lot of lines in this article that sound like advertising, heaping praise on the Aero Commander. If you are going to include all that praise, you need to include crashes to balance it. 203.217.41.202 09:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC) EDIT Sorry, I misunderstood. The crash information is still there and wasn't deleted at all. (I read the History section which said it had been deleted). Cheers.203.217.41.202 09:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what happened in the edit, but I've removed the incident, and the unsourced bit about the Shrike's acrobatic use by Bob Hoover.
- Adding info about every crash is NOT the way to write an article, or to "balance" the supposed praise. Crashes and incidents are only included if the crash is notable. You misunderstood my edit summary, but space is limited, so I didn't explain in detail. It wasn't the source that is non-notable, but the crash itself. The source did not give any factors that would prove the incident is notable. In addition, simply listing crashes does nothing to prove or disprove praise of an aircraft, as almost all aircraft have had accidents of some sort.
- This item was in the "Safety Record" section:
- One proof of the strength of the Shrike's design is that Bob Hoover flew an aerobatic act for nearly three decades in the Shrike, with his only accident being as a result of his plane accidentally being loaded with jet fuel, leading to engine failure on take-off.
- This item was the ONLY thing I could find in the article that even resembled praise. In fact, it follows two paragraphs of criticism, and appears to have been added to "balance" the section. So, with 2 paragraphs of criticism, and one of "praise", where did you get the idea that There are a lot of lines in this article that sound like advertising, heaping praise on the Aero Commander? If there are others, please point them out. But remember, this is an encyclopedia, not an aviation review site - we're not here to sell OR criticize aircraft, just to give a summary iew of them. - BillCJ 17:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
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- Hi. When does a crash become notable? A relatively small aircraft probably won't result in large numbers of fatalities. Is it only when a celebrity is on board that a crash becomes notable? It would be interesting to follow up the Melbourne incident with a brief sentence about the investigation conclusion, once it is finished, considering CASA (the Australian authority) is already eying the Aero Commander for possible problems. 203.217.41.202 20:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- While the guidleines on what constitutes a notable accident or incident are still being debated, there is a list at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force#Notability guidelines?.
- On general aviation aircraft:Accidents are generally not notable unless unusual circumstances are involved, notable people are involved, or the incident/accident otherwise results in downstream changes to the industry or procedures. Note: momentary news coverage, which would not last beyond the immediate timeframe of the accident, does not confer notability.
- As of right now, the crash does not meet that criterion. Because it's not even an guideline yet, I'm not going to "beat you over the head with it"! But it does give us a general idea of what to look for in such incidents. If the accident were notable in most respects, it would probably warrant an article on the crash itself. However, some minor incidents are still noted in the aircraft article if the incident deserves some mention, especially in regard to that type of aircraft.
- IF the accident does result in restrictions of or changes to the use of the Aero Commander, or at brings attention to groups desiring such restrictions, then it might be notable. As you said, we'll have to see what the investigation concludes. I hope this helps. - BillCJ 21:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More dates needed
Hi. One thing I would like to see in this article is more dates. We see that the Aero Commander was built from 1948. But when did it finish? Is it still in production? The 'Variants' section lists one or two dates, but it would be good to have dates next to all those models, that is, between what years were those models built? It's just a suggestion that I think would improve the article, though I realise it would take a lot of work to do. Cheers 203.217.41.202 21:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
- Good observation. I have a couple of printed references with this type in them, and I'll try to find some dates, and include the sources. - BillCJ 21:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Terrible Article
This article really needs a lot of work, including the Turbine Powered Commanders under an article called aero commander 500 is amateurish and wrong. There is also no mention of Twin Commander Aircraft Corporation and the current usage of the birds. -76.7.32.231 (talk) 05:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- All WP articles are works in progress. Yes, perhaps the page needs expansion, but please beware of painting with a broad brush. Also, if you have access to relibale sources with the information you mentioned, you are welcome to begin adding it to the article. If you're not sure how, just ask for help. Just don't shoot the helpers first next time. As to the title, it is common practice in aircraft reference works to include related aircraft under one heading, even piston and turboprop variants. On Wikipedia, we have a bit more leeway as we are WP:NOT:not a paper encyclopedia, but there are other reasons variants are covered together. In time, as the article expands, the turbine variants will probably be split off. For the time being, it probably better to have one good article of a fair length than to have two short ones. That can be discussed tho, hopfully without further insults. - BillCJ (talk) 05:45, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
