Talk:Adoptionism

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well hi there i am not knowing about this topic (L) me

Is this doctrine incompatible with the Virgin Birth? If he were born fully man, wouldn't God have chosen him rather than supernaturally create him? Facts? Opinions? Darkhorse82 22:01, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] merge

The difference is only one of spelling. The info at the more uncommon spelling (-tian-) should be merged into this article. In addition, the article needs to be re-written for clarity and accuracy. --TheLimbicOne(talk) 20:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] clarity

The implication of the two articles is that adoptionism and adoptianism have exactly opposite starting points. If this is correct, the difference is not merely one of spelling. Both describe Jesus as being dual-natured but that the duality occurs some time into Jesus' life. However, that is as far as the similarities go. Technically, the geneologies of Jesus are also incompatible with the Virgin Birth, as they trace from Joseph and Joseph would not have been involved. Of course, part of the problem is that existing material is highly fragmented and the translations don't always agree. Further, the Infancy Gospels seem to be much too late and much too foreign in nature to be of any use, and they're the only existant documents that talk about the period of Jesus' life that could answer the puzzle.

As for merging the articles, I think that would be a good idea. BUT - and I believe this is important - I think it should be generalized within reason. There were many, many sects and breakaway movements over the first eight or nine hundred years. It is almost inevitable that some will overlap with adoptionism/adoptianism to a greater or lesser degree. It might be helpful to define a class of theories which can be meaningfully grouped together. On the other hand, if the articles would be better kept separate, a topic index page that defines the set would likely be very useful.

Just one question before I consider merging these articles: If the two define different views on Jesus Christ, then shouldn't that be reason enough to not merge them? Kareeser|Talk! 23:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] delete it....

this second article is pretty much a waste and doesn't have as much info.

That's all.

[edit] Non-neutral insert

I'm reverting a great deal of non-substantiated claims, including an explicit appeal, "Should a Christian follow the more primitive belief of adoptionism or the more develeped Preexistence-Incarnation christology? Is the latter a newer and more advanced inspiration or a deviaton from the original and more genuine christian faith? That is a question any serious Christian should be meditating." Goldfritha 21:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References?

Much of the material about the development of adoptionism seem to rely entirely on an uncited work by Bart Ehrman. Anyone mind if I take a stab at a re-write - maybe something that incorporates views other than Ehrman's? Pastordavid 21:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Go for it. --Mikebrand 01:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Adoptionism

I have added the “Incoherent” warning to the History of Adoptionism section of the main article, due to the following sentence which appears in the lat paragraph of the section:

  • “The defeat of Adoptionism was a check upon the dyophysitic and dyotheletic feature in the Chalcedon Christology, and put off indefinitely the development of the human side in Christ's Person.”

I invite whoever wrote it in the firsts place, or whoever can make sense of it, to re-write it in more comprehensible language.
Miguel de Servet 21:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

No one's defending it. It's not attributed. The rest of the section's OK. How about I delete this sentence. Since it's here on the talk page, other editors will have a chance to fix it and replace it. Jonathan Tweet 13:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

There's a fact tag on Paul of S not fitting modalism or adoptionism 100%. The same phrasing is on other wiki pages, but I can't find a clear source. Paul's not a modallist because he denies that the Word and the Spirit are separate modes from the Father. Is there some way in which he's not an adoptionist? Maybe the issue is that Paul taught that the Word was not Christ. Christ was a man infused with the Word, but Jesus never became part of the trinity. Is that what makes him not an adoptionist, that Jesus became Christ and redeemer but did not become one being with the Father? Anyone know? Jonathan Tweet 13:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victor I

Does anyone know exactly why Victor I declared adoptionism a heresy? I mean, I can guess, but there's more than one possible reason, and I'd rather read a reference than just guess. I'm not asking "Why is adoptionism heretical?" I'm asking, "What reasons did Victor cite?" Jonathan Tweet 14:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DISCUSSION: proposal of merger of Adoption (theology) into this article

  • DO NOT MERGE The article Adoption (theology), though it may not even be a real definition that is notably used in Christianity (could be one user's interpretation that a Wikipedia article could be generated from his understanding of a scripture verse), isn't about the same thing as Adoptionism.

This article deals with theology about Christ's identity. Adoption (theology) deals with an individual Christian's relationship to the deity. They are two different topics altogether and there is no justification for merging the two unrelated concepts.OfficeGirl 06:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Strongly oppose merge for the same reasons. Nothing to do with each other. The merge tag was added tp the other article, but not this article, last January and nobody noticed until OfficeGirl above; it may be appropriate to delete the other article. Jacob Haller 17:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)